post

NEWSFLASH: Tenshi Breathes, Creates Drama

Last weekend I purchased some sculpty body parts from the SL Exchange, intending to use them as awesome tack-ons for the new shop Iris and I are splitting in Fuzzy. I paid a whole $200L for the as-advertised full perm sculpty maps, the advertisement’s only warning was to not resell the maps for a profit. Okay, great, so, I’m essentially buying a freebie. Whatever. Out goes the $200L, in comes the sculpty maps , and I immediately pass them out to people that I think could use them as well: my friends at Defying Gravity, and the designers in Designers in Seclusion.

A week goes by, and nothing. Then yesterday there was a comment at SCD from “Curious” that send me digging:

curious | design@hotmail.com

Just wondering if you are going to do an article about you in the wall of shame, Tenshi. you know, buying something on slexchange, then seeing that it was full perms and then sending it to everyone under the sun. At least 150 people got it from what I heard.

at L$200 a shot, that’s L$3000 you owe the maker of the item. I wonder if you’re going to make that right, as opposed to pointing out everyone else’s flaws and ignoring your own massive ones.

Then again, this post won’t even see the light of day.

Mar 15, 7:23 PM

As well as a notice sent out to Designers in Seclusion by Simone Stern alluding that my sculpty maps were stolen and linking to this article at Massively. Apparently Elexor Matador was acting as backup, so when I signed in yesterday I had to deal with a little of that issue but not much. I told Elexor to shut it, did some research and discovered that my sculpt maps were indeed a gridwide freebie for Burning Life, created in June of 2007, by Pumpkin Tripsa. The statue, if you recieve it as a freebie in-world, has full perms already on it… Mod, Copy, Trans. Therefore, just like any freebie item you are allowed to take it apart and do as you wish, just not resell it.

I bought it as a resell, because I didn’t know much about the Burning Life things that go on in SL. Therefore, I was duped, and the worst thing that should be happening from me passing out the sculpty maps is that I am out of $200L. Big. Hairy. Deal.

“Diana the Huntress”, picture taken from Linden Lab Archives

Well, I closed out Second Life at about midnight (EST) and went to bed. I didn’t boot my computer back up until 2pm EST the next day, and I come online to find a bunch of people from Designers in Seclusion have left, and because I passed a copy of the comment out to Designers in Seclusion yesterday when inquiring about the statue and whether or not it really was stolen. When I pasted it directly from the SCD databoard, I accidentally left the IP on when I pasted it in – IP’s are on every comment at SCD, usually after the email address in our data.

17:04] Tenshi Vielle: Hey guys, I have a question

[17:04] Tenshi Vielle: since we just got the most interesting comment at SCD

[17:04] Kesseret Steeplechase: yesh, darling

[17:04] Tenshi Vielle: curious | design@hotmail.com | IP: —– Just wondering if you are going to do an article about you in the wall of shame, Tenshi. you know, buying something on slexchange, then seeing that it was full perms and then sending it to everyone under the sun. At least 150 people got it from what I heard. at L$200 a shot, that’s L$3000 you owe the maker of the item. I wonder if you’re going to make that right, as opposed to pointing out everyone else’s flaws and ignoring your own massive ones. Then again, this post won’t even see the light of day.

[17:04] Tenshi Vielle: So whose textures WERE those then, if not the legit items of the creator @ SLX?

[17:04] Tenshi Vielle: Because I haven’t the faintest.

[17:04] Lyra Muse: Oh no. :(

[17:05] Tenshi Vielle: Yeah I’m confused

Kesseret Steeplechase, a network administrator, and myself both ran the particular IP in question before I ever pasted that in to chat and it’s a Mickey Mouse IP – their ISP reroutes it to the Bellantics HQ in Chicago, just like my own IP does – which is no where near where I live. It’s a fake, a ghost, usually put up by the user’s Internet Service Provider. Nothing to freak out about, but apparently several people thought it was worth it and didn’t bother to check facts or even ask.

A classic case of Lemming syndrome. THE IP IS A RED. FREAKING. HERRING.

But no, people with axes to grind against me flip out, quit the group, make Tigerlily and Eolande’s lives hell for a few hours, even make incomprehensible posts at their blog (which feed into Fashion Planet, that’s why all you poor people are reading this) and seem to think that they’re cute, witty, and/or funny… and also think I live in Chicago:

You need to remember Tenshi your information is just as easy to get at and if someone wanted to take legal action against you for slander and libel, all they need to do is look up your information on Which is a site accessible to ANYONE….. legally.

I’m shaking in my boots. Really.

TL;DR Cliffnotes: I bought a freebie off of SLX (stupidly), passed it around, people freaked out that it was stolen, a check proved it’s a gridwide freebie and the worst thing that happened regarding the item was that I lost $200L in purchasing it. A freebie resulted in this sort of crap happening all over one particular group of designers:

I really hate to have to leave the group. It really has helped me in alot of ways and I appreciate all the help I’ve gotten in here.
However, I think Lily made a good point the other day when she said she cant be the conscience for 150 adults. The problem is I’m not comfortable with the group conscience.
The reaction to Tenshi’s sending out those sculpties is something I just can’t condone. Her intent when she sent them was to share something with 150 people that they didn’t pay for. The fact that she later found out they were ripped or possibly ripped is really a moot point. The fact that no one took her to task over this yet she ripped apart a mentor for doing the exact same thing (her words were “these were for use, not resell..rails exact same argument) is just not an excuse.
The fact that no one pointed this out and the fact that we recieved an IP address in a group chat and no one pointed ot that was wrong either, are things I can’t condone.

We can’t, as a group, pick and choose when we stand up for our values.
If it’s wrong for someone outside DiS or someone who isn’t a creator, then it’s wrong for us as well folks.

—————————————————————————–

I have come to a rather hard decision, but it’s one that in all good
conscience I feel I must do.. I am leaving DiS.

I have discussed this situation with Lily regarding Tenshi’s sending out
goods she bought on slex. Lily was very good in hearing my disquiet,
however I have since gotten Tenshi’s flippant notice regarding this
action. the argument that they could quite possibly be ripped is
immaterial to this argument, as it is the act of passing out sale-able
goods that is in question, not the integrity of the seller.At the time
of Tenshi’s sending those textures she herself admitted to no
investigating the origin.

I then discovered that sadly NOONE in the group stood up to Tenshi AND
furthermore, NOONE raised a brow that she had pasted someone’s IP
address in the group chat.

It is this last, that is the deciding factor… I have worked hard for
this group, but I will not condone this seeming lack of conscience in
the group by staying.

Remind me not to sneeze any more, ok? I might make someone cry. These idiots kept Eolande up ALL night, the poor gal was a wreck come morning when the main group mod, Tigerlily, signed in. Eolande, I’m sorry you had to go through with this – Tigerlily, I’m sorry that you had to as well – and the rest of you lemmings, I’m appalled at YOUR RE-actions. Iris and I are pretty disgusted; Iris is talking quitting SL for good. I don’t blame her in the slightest. These are four or five of your very own favorite designers at work, folks. Oi vey.

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Comments

  1. Marni Grut says:

    Dude i so dont get what the fuss is about?

    If its open soarce

    meh w/e this thing should be over before its begun

  2. fallinmywebb says:

    “Just bought these off of SLX… full perm. $200L… meh. Share the wealth, right? Have a copy. I just hope these aren’t stolen. :\”

    Hmmm…this comment in the group notice just wreaks of you having NOT checked your facts beforehand. For all you knew you just started handing out someones work and you never even thought ONCE to check your facts before doing that?. You open your mouth and shit comes out without ever having a single thought in the world as to what you are saying, whos good name your slandering and likewise you act on those same impulses without thinking. I know that nothing anyone says to you or how many times it is made apparent that you are nothing but a self righteous drama queen will make you change your ways and shut up for once. Your motto appears to be “I don’t care if everyone in the world hates me so long as they know who I am”. If I were you I’d start holding myself to a little higher standards.

  3. DIANA. THE HUNTRESS. Hello?

  4. Agreed w/ marni. Also, the IP address netblock points to BA’s HQ which although is not in Chicago, it’s better to leave it at that. A rDNS doesn’t give offhand clues either to direct location. It’s always bothered me when people believe IP addresses are so private. They aren’t. Anywhere you go with your computer on a network it leaves a mark of your IP. So you go to my website, I can check my http logs and see you, what browser you are using, what OS you are using, and the computer name. Your computer name. There’s a fancy spyware/virus out that that names computers “Palace of Love” – Fun fact.

    I’m not sure why the big fuss. And threats about ‘finding your personal information’ cracks me up. You really want to know the info, you can get it- from IPs, from whois’s, from LL. Just takes the right path. Once we remove the fact that your identity is ‘hidden’ in Second Life we will remove the problems w/ content theft. Currently I believe this privacy belief that exists hinders the ability for real world actions against theft and other things.

    Just my 2L here. Keep it or toss it in someone else’s tip jar.

  5. The IP range is not owned by BA.. and I correct my comment – the initials are BS. Very sorry.

  6. Fucking ridiculous! Seriously folks! Did Tenshi by any means attempt to SELL these things? No she didn’t! Isn’t that the whole point here? I for one have done the following: bought some cool textures and shared them with friends who needed them for something or other. That’s exactly what Tenshi was trying to do assuming, of course, that everyone in the group was Tenshi’s friend. Tenshi, wtf are you doing in a group full of retards????
    And backstabbing ones at that! Run far far away!!!!

    Any friends would “share the wealth” especially with items like mannequins, textures or any other designer friendly props. In fact, I should send everyone out a pack of awesome textures that I bought for like 500 els. After all, we’re friends right??? Some of you might respond with “uh well friendship is no excuse for theft, redistribution, bla bla bla” but once again, and for the last time, no one was reselling anything!!!!

  7. fallinmywebb says:

    The reference to the WHOIS database was in no way a threat. It was mentioned to point out the fact that your constant libelous attacks on SL designers is just as illegal as content theft and possibly just as low an act and people can get the information necessary to take legal action against you. However unlikely it may be but thats the facts.

    Additionally the post on Gridstyle addresses many different concerns about Tenshis constant harassment of new designers in SL many times under false pretenses and wrong assumptions. Individual designers don’t need and more often than not don’t want you fighting on their behalf (Think Minnu and Eloh). You were proven wrong and way out of place on both those occasions and I believe we have yet to see an apology or even a retraction from you, Tenshi.

    The list goes on of your many blunders and wrong assumptions…when will you learn or was I correct in assuming the whole world could think you to be Satan and you couldn’t care less so long as you get your two cents in?

  8. fallinmywebb says:

    LMAO! I see your friends here agree that theft isn’t a big deal. Redistributing textures IS theft Allala unless they are freebies but freebies don’t usually cost 500L do they?

  9. Ana Boogiewoogie says:

    Le Sigh. Here we go again. People starting shit over ripped items. Tenshi, i’m beginning to think people just have a personal vendetta out against you. I’m sure if this happened to anyone else, no one would have a problem. “Oh it was an accident, they didn’t know.”

    Oh, and “For all you knew you just started handing out someones work and you never even thought ONCE to check your facts before doing that?”

    We have to check everything we buy now, huh? Really, will people just think logically for once?

    God, people. Just shut the hell up, we have enough problems in secondlife without having to deal with your petty drama.

    Oh yeah, feel free to hate me for this post, btw.

  10. Ana Boogiewoogie says:

    P.s. Why are you wasting time bitching about what Tenshi did, and not bitching at the person who ripped them in the first place and is selling them? Tenshi did nothing wrong. She handed out a full perm freebie. Nothing against the rules about that.

  11. fallinmywebb says:

    “Le Sigh. Here we go again. People starting shit over ripped items.”

    This blog just attracts idiots! Do you read all the nonsense Tenshi writes about on this blog? Its the same shit she has now done and has, in the past, tried to ruin peoples reputations over…STEALING. She does this whether its factual or just some silly shit she makes up in her own twisted head.

    And yes you do need to check everything you intend to distribute BEFORE distributing it. Many things in SL are sold full perms so that content creators can use them to create products that can be sold. NOT so the original textures or poses or whatever else can be sold as is.

    And as for your defense of “its being given away not sold so it’s ok” Does this mean you can go steal someones items and give them away as freebies? So long as your not making a profit then theft is ok?

    Get a life and lets use our heads people.

  12. Fallimyweb, there’s a difference between sharing and redistributing. If you have never given any of your friends anything that you may have paid for and was full perms then I’m glad I’m not your friend. Besides, this was a freebie item!!!! If there’s anything Tenshi did wrong it’s the sole fact that she got ripped off. Shame on you Tenshi!
    P.S. Ana I’m feeling free to hate you for this post! *hates*
    <3<3<3

  13. Ana Boogiewoogie says:

    Okay, Fallinmywebb. I’m sure you’re WAY innocent, aren’t you? You’ve never bought a texture from somewhere and gave it to a friend? Never shared something with people? Hm? In this case, the item in question WAS A FREEBIE. It’s buyable for FULL PERM FREE. I never once said she is 100% in the right for handing it out. But we all do it, and if you’re going to wag your finger at one person, you might as well do it to 90% of SL. But you aren’t posting here to “protect the rights of creators”. You’re here attempting to make Tenshi look like a thief, and that’s it.

    Oh, and you saying this blog attracts idiots doesn’t say much for you, does it? Seeing as you’ve commented a few times already…

  14. I actually was afraid to log off of Second Life this morning after untangling some webs, lest there be a huge nuclear fallout that finds its way out of my computer.

  15. Wednesday Soon says:

    You’re only just thinking that Anars?! If this had been anyone else, none of this crap would be going on. There would be a wee fuss and then it would be gone.

  16. fallinmywebb says:

    OOOoooh. BUUUuuurrnnn! You got me Ana:) No there is NO difference between redistributing and “sharing” Now lets all get our heads out of the clouds and face the facts…She acted without thinking and clearly stated as much when she sent the textures out. Additionally she is constantly slandering peoples good names THEN being proven 100% wrong on all counts yet still can’t bring herself to put up a retraction or apology. Theres more to this than simply redistribution of items. Take some riddlin and try to read past the first couple of lines.

  17. jOMG!

    Quick Tenshi, just pay the fooking L$3000 before people figure out how to use their calculators and work out it’s actually L$30,000

    *hums*

  18. lmao. THANKS A LOT KITTY! GAWD.

    I’m not paying that dude any more money; he duped me out of $200L for a freebie! WHY do I shop at SLX? Lord almighty.

  19. Ana Boogiewoogie says:

    Psst. Tenshi get your butt on SL, I need to spank you. You’re sucha BAD PERSON!

  20. Oh Jesus Wept…am I misunderstanding something here? From what I have read Tenshi is the one who was ripped off by paying 200L for something which is a common freebie – it’s freely available full perms all over the grid.

    “This blog just attracts idiots!”
    fallinmyweb – you are reading this blog!!!!

    You are right what you say about it not being ok to giveaway stolen items as freebies – but there is no evidence this was stolen so what’s the big frickin deal???

    It’s another mountain out of a molehill situation why don’t you go and bother yourself about something more important?

  21. So. The issue is that Ms Vielle distributed some items for free, the licence for which stated “do not sell at a profit”. And where said items turned out not to have been the intellectual property of the seller in any case.

    Well, I say the ducking stool, personally. Appalling.

  22. Concerned Citizen says:

    Tenshi portrays herself as a freedom-fighter on an ever watchfull vigil in defense of content creators, guarding them against would be thieves. You would THINK that someone who sees themself in this light would do a little research, fact-checking, and check her sources before re-distributing ANY purchased item.

  23. > Tenshi portrays herself as a freedom-fighter on an ever watchfull vigil in defense of content creators, guarding them against would be thieves. You would THINK that someone who sees themself in this light would do a little research, fact-checking, and check her sources before re-distributing ANY purchased item.

    What, you mean like checking the licence for a product to see whether it allows redistribution? Or checking the origins of a product to see whether it was freely-distributed in the first place?

  24. Concerned Citizen says:

    >>What, you mean like checking the licence for a product to see whether it allows redistribution? Or checking the origins of a product to see whether it was freely-distributed in the first place?

    BOTH

  25. fallinmywebb says:

    I’ll repeat myself one more time for those of you who read at a slightly lower level than most.
    This is NOT simply about this one issue it is about Tenshis complete lack of respect for others outside of her little clique here and a complete lack of respect for those little things called facts.
    To all of you defending Ms. Vielles actions and asking why am I or anyone else for that matter making an issue out of it. Why don’t you view some of Tenshis past mishaps and wrongdoings.

    http://shoppingcartdisco.com/2007/09/19/minnu-model-skins-ripped-off/

    http://shoppingcartdisco.com/2008/03/03/whoops-i-lied/

    In both of those examples it was none of her damned business and she was wrong in both instances.

    Lets also look back to Tenshis comments when she sent out the items in a notice:
    “Just bought these off of SLX… full perm. $200L… meh. Share the wealth, right? Have a copy. I just hope these aren’t stolen. :\”

    So…..what if they weren’t stolen? Would you all still be here defending her? It doesn’t matter if it did come out that they were stolen or freebies the FACT of the matter is she did not know at the time whether the item was legit, stolen OR a freebie. Her ego dictates to her that she can do whatever she wants whenever she wants and to whomever she wants.

    Either way arguing with any of you who defend Tenshis past or present actions is just pointless and I’m losing interest in you. Nothing that can be said or done will make you go against the dreaded *cough* Tenshi Vielle.

  26. > BOTH

    So – the two things that took place then? You would prefer if if both of the things which were done, were done? Well, you are having a productive evening then – two extra points!

    This is the sort of thing which gives a bad name to the idea of content protection. A free item was resold for money, though with the admittedly honest addition of a notice saying “don’t resell this at a profit”. That statement means that any price charged below L$200, including L$0, is fine. When on further examination it turns out that the item was actually meant to be free anyway, that just makes its distribution even, er, finer.

  27. > So…..what if they weren’t stolen? Would you all still be here defending her? It doesn’t matter if it did come out that they were stolen or freebies the FACT of the matter is she did not know at the time whether the item was legit, stolen OR a freebie. Her ego dictates to her that she can do whatever she wants whenever she wants and to whomever she wants.

    Thank you, sunshine, but if the items were marked “do not resell for a profit” that indicates “sell or redistribute as much as you like, but not for a profit”. Full-perms items not meant for redistribution say “not for redistribution”. As it turns out there was a very good reason that the original seller said that in the first place; credit to them for that.

    > Either way arguing with any of you who defend Tenshis past or present actions is just pointless and I’m losing interest in you. Nothing that can be said or done will make you go against the dreaded *cough* Tenshi Vielle.

    Yes, well, quite. It _does_ seem quite obvious that this is all based on some tedious detail about somebody wearing the same shoes at the wrong time, or saying an inappropriate thing to someone else’s boyfriend. Or, well, who knows really, there is a vast panoply of potential causes. Thank you for confirming that this is the case.

    Good Lord, it isn’t as if the matter of content theft is a serious one or anything. It isn’t as if tedious feuds are not more important than an issue which threatens the whole of the content creation world and for that matter SL itself. No, let us bang on about stupid matters deriving from schoolchild spats.

  28. Concerned Citizen says:

    I do not know Tenshi, pesonally. I don’t know any of you. But I do know right from wrong, and I know that someone who blatently parades herself as a defender of content creators should be a wee bit more carefull as to what she purchases and then hands out freely. This is not some noob who did this. We are talking about someone who perceives themself as some sort of pre-ordained champion acting in defense of those who would be slighted by thieves. There is no excuse for her failure to identify the source of the items she was handing out.

  29. ItsAboutTime says:

    Putting aside the fact that they were open source maps…. putting aside that she paid 200L to someone that had no right to sell them in the first place….

    What right does she have to purchase ANYTHING with full mods and then mass distribute them to Groups of people in Notices. IF ANYONE was to purchase a “ripped” texture of a skin and send it out in a notice to a group of ppl that she MAYBE knew 1/4 of they would be tied to the stake and burned… in the designing world that isn’t done. If Tenshi is going to play in that world she needs to follow those rules. It has nothing to do with the perms of the maps, where they came from, who made them… it has to do with the fact they were distributed out in a mass group. PERIOD. SHE HAS NO RIGHT WHAT SO EVER TO DO THAT UNLESS SHE IS THE DESIGNER OF THEM.

    Secondly, this goes BEYOND just handing a few out to a few friends.

    If by chance i accidentally sent someone an item that had full mods on it does that mean its OK to send it to everyone? NO. I think it speaks for itself the mentality people have that actually try to continue to make excuses for her or fail to see what the actual problem is.

    I was burned at the stake for stealing 3rd generation stolen textures. She was one of those ppl that had more then her share of comments made. Right now from where I am sitting that kettle looks as black as it can get.

    Tenshi I hope you have learned a lesson here. I don’t know you to say that you are a bad person, HOWEVER I think you are as unethical as the people you slander in your own blog.

    There is a reason why I stopped reading blogs. They are full of hypocrites.

    The title of this “story” is amazing also. Tenshi brought this upon herself and now has to reap what she sows only she doesnt like this kind of attention cause its not her “normal” drama. Now this puts her at the same level as the scum she blogs. SMH.

  30. Since my words were copied here, I’ll at least comment on Ordinal’s last post.

    Yes, well, quite. It _does_ seem quite obvious that this is all based on some tedious detail about somebody wearing the same shoes at the wrong time, or saying an inappropriate thing to someone else’s boyfriend. Or, well, who knows really, there is a vast panoply of potential causes. Thank you for confirming that this is the case.

    Sorry. I’ve never met Tenshi. I don’t know if we have the same shoes or the same boyfriends or ex boyfriends.

    I do know what took place as I was involved on all the conversations and they are not posted here. Only one version is. No I’m not going to explain them. Many of us have and I think all of them would agree that we still stand by it.

    And Ordinal, as you weren’t there..you might want to resconsider stating what you think the origins were.

  31. *sends a herd of hamsters to nibble on Tenshi’s toes*

  32. The source being someone who was reselling freebies whilst passing on a note saying that reselling was okay for L$0, or less than L$200 in any case?

  33. > I was involved on all the conversations and they are not posted here. Only one version is. No I’m not going to explain them.

    You’ll excuse me for not caring in the slightest what you have to say then, given that you display such contempt.

    I’m afraid that I have an interest in addressing the real issue regarding content redistribution, when things are actually being distributed breaking licences and explicitly against the wishes of the creators, and this sort of rubbish is actively counter-productive; it makes the whole thing look like just a personal spat between fashionistas.

    If you have an indication that things are not as portrayed in terms of licences and permissions then by all means post away! I would quite happily say “I did not know that, I was wrong, bad Tenshi no haircut”. But there is a bit of a lack of that sort of thing, really.

  34. Thanks Ann, I needed those clipped.

    Okay. As we are all well aware, the Minnu post was requested from me by Minnu herself, at the concern that her skins had been ripped. The second blog entry you keep harping on, “fallinmywebb” (Sheltered Heart) – is indeed Eloh skins bases. Being resold at a pretty high price. *shrug* It really doesn’t add anything to your argument.

    When I’m wrong, I admit it. My failure comes in pointing out where other people fall short as well, I suppose.

    Thanks for popping around, Ordinal, it’s always awesome to see you hanging out with us dirigibles :)

  35. Shelly: You’re more than welcome to come post your version here.

  36. Dragger Lok says:

    Take a deep breath … not at all convinced the maps were freebies, it’s not uncommon to include some popular freebie maps in a pack, not at all sure there wasn’t another notice about repackaging, What gets me is how they were sent out and instead of being contrite … ahh all just a shame.

  37. They were sent out as an attempt to contribute to the group – designers could use them as mannequins or the like if they so wished. That was the intent.

    Why be sneaky unless I knew they were stolen? And they’re not even stolen at that.

  38. fallinmywebb says:

    FallinMy webb and Sheltered Heart aren’t the same person chicky…yet another lie from your shit spewing mouth. Try and get your facts straight before making anymore assumptions…this shits getting old

  39. fallinmywebb says:

    lmao…sorry and what do you consider a “pretty high price”? the skins are only 300L!! Besides that it is “yet again” none of your damned business. Go to Elohs site and read her license again FFS

  40. Dragger Lok says:

    was it this one?
    http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=508330&RatingID=1367090&Helpful=1
    If so then the only crime is the sellers- but the poor attitude:

    “Just bought these off of SLX… full perm. $200L… meh. Share the wealth, right? Have a copy. I just hope these aren’t stolen. :\”

    belongs to Tenshi …

  41. $300L on sale. Case closed.

    Thanks Dragger, that’s the proper link, yes. Oh, they upped their price! Cute! If I had been concerned in the first place that they were stolen or that the intention of the creator was not to release them full perm, I would not have purchased them, and certainly would not have passed them around.

  42. fallinmywebb says:

    Now you say this…

    “If I had been concerned in the first place that they were stolen or that the intention of the creator was not to release them full perm, I would not have purchased them, and certainly would not have passed them around.”

    but but….you said this in the notice….

    “Just bought these off of SLX… full perm. $200L… meh. Share the wealth, right? Have a copy. I just hope these aren’t stolen. :\”

    **Does the “Tenshi Vielle is full of it” dance**

  43. Dear o dear…what a fuss – why not go out into RL and take a walk in the sunshine, take some big gulps of lovely fresh air, read a book…..

    *Yawns* goes off to bed to read a book (although I have to say I do read at a slightly lower level than most so I may be some time….oh, the joys of patronising people)

  44. Concerned Citizen says:

    I’m out of here. I have some crap to release for RFL, but then I’m leaving. I’m gone.

    –Iris Seale

    Don’t worry, you won’t be missed.

  45. Wow, Concerned, consider your comment abilities revoked. No one talks to Iris like that when I’m around.

  46. Marni Grut says:

    Concerned Citizen, if you hate iris and the people that run this blog SO much when read it?

    Do you want sombody to hold you hand in the hate circle? Please dont throw the toys out of the pram here is making a mess deary.

    Marni

  47. Dragger Lok says:

    Didn’t think you would, go make nice to shelly, life is way too short and what matters seldom gets the attention it needs. like you all to kiss and make up … hell would pay to see that.

  48. I’m not going to kiss up to someone who overreacts and thinks I’m a good reason to throw a nice group away.

  49. Dragger Lok says:

    Shame since you set the stage for it, I’ve known shelly for the longest time and she’s not one to go looking for a fuss, why not prove how nice a group you are and extend a hand.

  50. Dragger, she can come in the comments and say whatever she wants. That’s as much of a hand as she’s going to get. I just read the second log from last night’s group chat and I am absolutely disgusted that a bunch of supposed adults can act like such idiots.

  51. careful folks, your personal vendettas are showing

  52. Sasy Scarborough says:

    This comment is big, sorry in advance.

    for starters Fallin and Shel, I love you to bits, but one bit of info on the Minnu thing is incorrect , there was a retraction written after the fact
    http://shoppingcartdisco.com/2007/09/23/minnu-skins-vs-suite-17-retraction/

    reason I know this to look for it is I helped write the darn thing

    but now as for this matter, my two cents worth and thats a few lindens…if like in the past Tenshi came to me and said bah phooey, Id have pointed out that regardless of the perms the licence the fluff, sending full perms anything that you didnt create at this time the way SL is, was not a well thought out move…there is nothing that can be said to justify that other than what should have been said in this post to begin with.

    **I didnt think it out properly, I was trying to help, I maybe should have said hi all I have some maps for these cool things if anyone wants them IM me**

    IP address may or may not go anywhere but I also remember a certain situation where Tenshi was freaked out over the ‘threat’ of real v’s sl , again things I ended up wording to fix.

    Like I said the fact that they dont go anywhere doesnt change the fact that that info for the unknowing of how IP’s work is a scary thing to see spammed across your screen…because YOU know its not a danger doesnt change that.

    Tenshi as much as you enjoy fighting the good fight on behalf of others whether they ask for it or not, this kind of non thinking thing has to come around and slap you back, its not a vendetta its just straight out ‘HELLLOOO what the hell ‘

    You know as well as everyone reading that had anyone else done this it may have been skimmed over but not by you, you would have jumped all over it , and that is why you should also be held accountable for it …a not thought out mistake , sure why not we all have non thinking days.

    But admit to it , this is not your pity party its a blog, you want to show the grid how stupid they are being, want to shake lindens and accuse them of not playing fair, then you have to live by those standards you want everyone else to adhere to.

    You did something silly, we all have its not going to make you less of a person to admit it, you have done so in the past and came out ok, the other shocking part to this is that you did actualy buy something off SLX full perms ‘without’ knowing who made them, and yet came up with all the info after the fact, I am stunned more by that than anything else on this post.

    what also concerns me more, and again sorry for how big this comment is, but what you did, is what someone else will do down the line, they will recieve something full perms off a ‘friend’ and think its ok to use, or it will be filtered down through hundreds of friends until the so called dont resell this for profit part becomes a very warped version of chinese whispers…will you be able to accuse them of theft ?

    Sasy

  53. Wednesday Soon says:

    It’s funny how actually trivial this is in the grand scheme of things. Like I previously stated, if it had been anyone else, there wouldn’t be this bloody great row. It’s srsly not even about WHAT happened anymore, it’s about WHO had a slip in judgement, and that’s a weak excuse for the name-calling etc etc. All this talk about being adult and barely anyone’s living up to that.

    Ten may not have the best track record, but god damn people are fucking juvenile for singling her out. Srsly. If you hate her so much shut the fuck up and move on. Quit using her as an excuse for this hate and find something else to do. At least she has the gonads to say half of what she does. She’s not perfect, you’re not perfect and I sure as hell am not.

    I’m out as well. See you on the flip.

  54. Who’s not living by the standards, Sasy? I owned up to what I did, never denied it. I simply said it was a mistake. I don’t rake people over the coals for distributing freebies. Selling them, yes, but that’s always been the Oldbies domain, not me.

    You should really read the chat logs from the group though. They’re a shining example of our content creators at work in the wee hours of the night.

  55. Goddammit people. Seriously. I am so sick of the finger-pointing and negativity that I’m seeing every day I log into SL and this ridiculous display of junior-high antics is enough to make me scream. Nitpicking and being snarky does not make you cool; it makes you sad. Especially when you’re an adult. Grow the fuck up, people! I’m younger than 90% of you, so me saying that should really tell you something. You’re pathetic, drama-mongering wipes who feed off others’ hurt feelings and I wouldn’t trade places with a single one of you.

    I’m out of here. I have some crap to release for RFL, but then I’m leaving Second Life. It’s not worth going through shit like this vicariously just so I can draw some pictures and make some cash. I’m gone.

    –Iris Seale

  56. Man, I can’t believe the level people have stooped to over the past 24 hours just to get at me. I really can’t. I’ve seen designers I thought were good stoop to a backbiting level between each other, I’ve seen them hold a “kick her out of the clubhouse” vote in group chat, I’ve seen people try to release my RL info just because I passed out a fucking freebie. I found out there is a funfun secret group that was used to “collaborate” this attack on me in Designers in Seclusion.

    This has gone beyond normal, this is now in the insanity range. Holy. Crap. I’m not this important. I’m really not; not worth all of this effort, pain and time.

  57. fallinmywebb says:

    Wednesday

    “It’s srsly not even about WHAT happened anymore, it’s about WHO had a slip in judgement,”

    Damn straight…live up to your own standards and this wouldn’t be happening would it?

    “Ten may not have the best track record, but god damn people are fucking juvenile for singling her out. Srsly.”

    You mean the way she singles out anybody who stands in her way?

    “At least she has the gonads to say half of what she does.”

    I don’t care how MUCH she says it’s about WHAT she says. Learn the difference. The slander and libel never ends on this blog.

  58. Actually, the slander and libel never ends in your comments, “fall”.

  59. Is this where I chant “Fight Fight Fight”?

  60. lol, that was earlier this morning Talon, you’re a bit late. <3

  61. Allalalaface says:

    Lets all be adults and admit that this is simply an excuse to bash Tenshi, right fallin? Had this been anyone else…shit I won’t even bother to finish that sentence. Yes, Tenshi has pointed some fingers and raised some issues in the past. This is reason enough to start a big stink over a little mishap???? Tenshi never criticized anyone for handing out gifts or “sharing the wealth” so anyone accusing her of hypocrisy: stfu, you have no case in point. Fallin, you obviously have a grudge against Tenshi so cut the bullshit and stick to the true reasons for which you dislike her…or maybe you simply have a black soul…or maybe you fell into your own web…who knows!? Point is, you all talk of justice, right and wrong, theft, fairness…but have you thought about hatred??? I’m shocked if you didn’t because you’re all full of it as evidenced by the utter shit you all say. Bad karma folks.

  62. *looks up at the comment times* Wow… I guess I need to check my bloglines more often! But yeah, this is pure insanity, I don’t even CARE who is right and who is wrong in this one, we might have just lost Iris / Punch Drunk here over what amounts to a .jpg2000 file and a grand sum of money amounting to, over the grand scheme of things, $20.

    Then again, I can’t speak, furries like me INVENTED drama.

  63. “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.”

    While I certainly agree that Content Theft Issue are Rampant and Generally Causing a great amount of discomfort and distress to Content Creators and Consumers, I think we all need to remember that we are all trying to accomplish the same thing. This ongoing game of Duck, Duck, Goose Finger-pointing gets us no-where. And this ongoing Drama is killing my enjoyment of SL and zapping me of creative impulse.

    We want LL to do something about it, they seem unwilling or unable and have yet to really come out publicly about the problem.

    I am not sure that any of us are innocent. Last night I made a bunch of T-Shirts for St. Patrick’s Day releases, and in part used Images I found on the web added to my hand-painted originals to make them. On some level, this is also content theft, but everyone has Photo-shopped Textures, and that is often overlooked. Have you copied a design you saw in RL, is that not also a form of content theft? Where do we draw the line?

    I appreciate the motivation to expose the problems that we are all encountering on a daily basis it seems, but:
    A) Hurling Accusations of theft is a very serious thing to do, and I don’t know that anyone other then the original content creator has any authority to judge.
    B) If you are trying to expose a problem, then you really need to do your research, or else you are leaving yourself open to this criticism, unless that is your goal.
    C) If you have taken up this crusade, you should be especially sensitive to the rights of content creators, and be sure that you don’t in-advertently contribute to the problem.

    The items in question that were full perms objects, were purchased with the directions at to how they could or could not be used. I am not certain of what those directions were. As long as you adhered to those directions, then there is no issue. The fact that they were later discoved to be a re-sold Freebie does not excuse the actions, if they were againt the explicit instuctions of whom was beleive to be a legitimate seller. If that was the case, then a wrong was commited.

    However, discovering after the fact that they were indeed widely available freebies, can not excuse a breech of agreement. Has the items in question turned out to be orignals and not freebies, would this situation be more acceptable? I am not sure any of us can say that.

    This on-going drama is lessening the severity of the actual issue at hand. It is also undermining the legitimate efforts of Content Creators to raise awareness as they have choosen to do with the recent poster campaign.

    Where do you draw the line in the sand, and if you draw one… you better be sure you stay on the right side of it. If you allow it to be blurred on a technicality, then you are saying that there are degrees of acceptability in Content Theft Issues, and I am not sure that any of us want that.

    No one is perfect, so if you are taking up a cause so strongly, then you must be certain that you are not contributing to the problem.

    Take your hand and point a finger, notice that there are more fingers yet still pointed back at you. I am not on any side of this issue, I am not certain Tenshi did anything wrong technically, I just think that the statement made with the notice attached to the distributed item seems to illustrate that the attitude was rather glib. Accusation without basis hurt us all and can destroy reputations and businesses, a person’s source of income, and most importantly, our enjoyment of SL.

  64. Wednesday Soon says:

    fallin wtf do MY standards have to do with anything? You don’t even make sense. All you’re doing is attacking Tenshi because of your obvious distaste for anything she has to say. Just because I know her and don’t hate her guts like 95% of the grid doesn’t lower my standards any. I don’t judge people the way you obviously do. Quit attacking everyone you don’t seem to like and take a look at the big picture.

    Speaking of slander and libel…is it really okay to tell people to look up other people’s personal information? Condoning stalking is an okay thing on the interweb, huh. I don’t care who it is, THAT’S wrong and your morals need a serious looking at. Or is it just okay because it’s Tenshi in the firing line? The finger points right back at you too.

    Get over it. There are bigger battles to fight, leave Tenshi alone.

  65. Ziggy Quirk says:

    For the record Tenshi, I don’t give a flying fruitbat about anything you ever did. My issue was with a supposedly good and supportive group turning around and trying to draw blood rather than talk about anything in a constructive manner.

  66. O.o I’m sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo excited I finally finished reading all the comments, it only took 1/2 an hour.
    Disclaimer: I am not a creator, but I spend Lindens like Britney Spears at a Shoe Carnival store, so don’t get it twisted, this is 3rd party speaking here:

    Tenshi, YOU GO GIRL. Sorry to bring back such antiqued and dreaded suburban mom trying to be cool lingo (especially since that is so not me) but I can’t help it. Anyone that gets dragged down and repeatedly kicked in the stomach by a bunch of IDIOTS deserves some love. They are IDIOTS Tenshi, I can’t stress that enough. The leader of this pack of hyenas is apparently Fallinweb whatever her name is, so I’ll just address her/them/it/whatever directly:

    Fallin, first of all, COWARD, you remind me of why I’m getting this tattooed on my body: VAS DOMAS (“Glass Houses” – by the way that is MY INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY and if I see you walking around on the streets with it I will hold you down until a lawyer walks by). You suck and let me tell you why. You obviously have some sort of larger scale problem (really, just come out with it and say it, it’s obviously a bit more personal to you than content theft, did she not say hi to you once at a club or sumpfing?) with Tenshi, and this tiny, wee issue of, and I’m going to simplify it for you so you can stop spreading your vicious libel and slander (see Tenshi? IDIOTS) Tenshi passed out a full perm object. GASP! THE HORROR! Had she found this freebie laying about on the grid, she would have passed it out or told her friends where to find it so they could get it themselves. The only thing that is a crime here, (IP address=sidebar issue that really isn’t an issue in the first place, just fuel for the fire of the crazies) is that Tenshi got ripped off.

    Somebody make Fallin a nice warm bottle, baby needs a nap. I’ll pray for you.

    Oh and this little statement does nothing but prove that Tenshi does care where she gets her shit:

    “Just bought these off of SLX… full perm. $200L… meh. Share the wealth, right? Have a copy. I just hope these aren’t stolen. :\”

    She hopes the person she just bought it from did not steal it, cause that would suck. Tenshi knows this because she fights for the rights of content creators, and would be quite upset (obviously) had she found out in fact, that she did buy a stolen item. The fact that Tenshi is bloody, bruised up, and laying on the ground getting kicked by all you Judas’ all the while giving you the finger is evidence enough for you to STFU since we ALL know Tenshi’s got enough spirit to ADMIT WHEN SHE IS WRONG. Now take a lesson from her and go think about it. Quit asking her to apologize just to spite her, and get some religion cause you all is evil.

  67. Thank you, Bibe.

  68. Dragger Lok says:

    Jhuzen,

    Points all well made- but if you look at the context of the Slex ad you will see what the seller listed as conditions, short of buying it to make sure there were no further conditions I think it’s safe to say what was there was inside also. Sadly this amounts to a slight error in judgment sending them out and being too casual about it, there isn’t a person alive who hasn’t done something without thinking it through. It in no way comes close to the mentor who deliberately removed copyright notices from commercial packs of sculpties and passed them around to 800+ members and in his “apology” wrote:

    “a notecard doesnt mean jack, it is simply the creators wishes”

    http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=508330&RatingID=1367090&Helpful=1

    As for the seller it looks like he(?) will catch a bit of well deserved hell as noted in the coments at the bottom of the ad:

    “I applied the sculpts to prims and lo and behold, its the same body parts as DIANA the HUNTRESS made by Pumpkin Tripsa which as everyone knows is a complete FREE ITEM on SL. Yes, its copyrighted but not by this merchant selling them on SLX. I have notified Pumpkin Tripsa the original artist so he can file a DMCA claim and also SLX administrators so they can remove this blatant rip off.
    DO NOT BUY THIS ITEM. “

  69. I’ve not said anything publicly to this point. Largely because I spent honest-to-God from the time I got up yesterday morning until I went to bed last night (save a few hour break for dinner) dealing with…insanity really. I’ve shed tears for both sides of this issue. I’ve lost group members. I’ve lost respect for people I considered colleagues, a few I considered friends.

    I’m at a point where I can hopefully speak somewhat coherently though, and I feel a need to publicly state my position.

    I will begin by saying until this point I’ve had no strong feelings one way or another about Tenshi. I haven’t always agreed with her, or with the way she’s done things. I respect her right to her own opinions. I respect that she’s ballsy enough to stand up and say what she thinks and what she feels even if it goes against the popular opinion. This is a blog which Webster’s defines as “ a personal Web site that provides updated headlines and news articles of other sites that are of interest to the user, also may include journal entries, commentaries and recommendations compiled by the user; also written web log, Weblog; also called blog.” This is the Gospel by Tenshi, in other words. Just like every other blogged opinion in the world.

    I am the founder of the Designers in Seclusion group, which is a support group for Designers. We are not an IP protection group, though we obviously have addressed IP issues as it’s something that effects us as designers. We’re just a chatty, laid back (or were previously) group of people who help each other out when called on and support each other in the day-to-day workings of being a content creator.

    I was approached by someone speaking on behalf of several people last week regarding the notice Tenshi had sent out. I’d kinda furrowed my brow when I saw her notice, but being as they were full perms textures, without any usage information included with or on the textures, I didn’t give it much more thought.

    Once I was approached, I started doing some digging. If there were people who felt it might be in question, I felt it was my responsibility to find out what I could. I dug through SLX for hours trying to find the item in question. I purchased what I believed to be the same item, though at a different price than what Tenshi stated she’d paid. There was no notecard or any other “terms of usage” information. I took the textures out, applied them to prims, did the same with each set. They matched. The item description on SLX states “copyrighted for there its not to be resell as a texture.” Copyrighted, okay, need to keep looking. Note the comment at the bottom of the same item: “Casandra Jackson on 2008-03-04 – I applied the sculpts to prims and lo and behold, its the same body parts as DIANA the HUNTRESS made by Pumpkin Tripsa which as everyone knows is a complete FREE ITEM on SL. Yes, its copyrighted but not by this merchant selling them on SLX. I have notified Pumpkin Tripsa the original artist so he can file a DMCA claim and also SLX administrators so they can remove this blatant rip off.”

    Free, full permissions item. Someone else selling free, full permissions item’s textures. I double checked the properties of the textures, yes they’re by the listed seller. So I sent a PM to find out if this is actually the item Tenshi purchased, and specifically stated she’d not resold, but had distributed them to a group. By the response of the seller, they weren’t overly concerned. “I’ll keep my eye on her,” was the response. Someone selling free, full perms item’s textures doesn’t really care. Imagine that.

    I’ve had the question posed to me “What if that were your freebie hair, copied and being sold?” Then, I’d be upset because my freebie hair is released as no transfer. But if I were releasing my freebie hair with full permissions, how in the world could I possibly complain that someone is selling it? Giving something out with FULL permissions means FULL permission to do whatever you want with it. Doesn’t it? Correct me if I’m wrong, please, but I’m pretty sure that what it means.

    I have tried to contact the original creator of the Diana statue. I’ve yet to get an answer, but I’m still hoping that he will weigh in. Until HE states there’s a problem with this, and somehow releasing an item with full permission does not also include grabbing the texture from the full permissions item (not being sarcastic, because this may be the case and I don’t understand it correctly) or someone can get a Linden response to what exactly releasing a full permissions item gives “full” permissions for, I stand by my decision to allow Tenshi to not only rejoin the DiS group, but to remain.

    I’ve said to Tenshi as well as others, and I’m saying it publicly here: If I get black and white “This ToS has been broken” then I will remove her from the group myself.

    Jhuzen said: “A) Hurling Accusations of theft is a very serious thing to do, and I don’t know that anyone other then the original content creator has any authority to judge.
    B) If you are trying to expose a problem, then you really need to do your research, or else you are leaving yourself open to this criticism, unless that is your goal.
    C) If you have taken up this crusade, you should be especially sensitive to the rights of content creators, and be sure that you don’t in-advertently contribute to the problem. “

    Hurling accusations is very serious. It’s why I’ve done my best to follow the appropriate channels in determining the bottom line of this situation. It’s why I didn’t discuss it with anyone outside the initial “we’re not really sure this is okay” conversation. I didn’t have any just cause to take action against her. I hadn’t even spoken to her directly about it because the more I discovered the less I could see how she’d done anything wrong per the ToS.

    Tenshi responded in group chat with a paste of the comment that started this off into the public fray. Obviously, this comment came from someone within the DiS group. She pasted the IP of the commenter, likely because she was logged into her own blogging account and therefore saw that info. I’ve also searched through the ToS regarding that. She pasted an IP, with a comment, and no name of a person, Second Life or otherwise. Again, someone show me how that goes against the ToS or Community Standards and I will remove her myself from the group.

    Tenshi was effectively lynch mobbed in the group chat late at night (USA night anyway) without being present to even state her case. I have THIRTY word document pages worth of it all. I am appalled and embarrassed by the things that were said about her. I am embarrassed that many of the people who did and said those things, I hand selected to be a part of this group. I personally feel some of those people should have AR’s filed against them for both #s 1 and 2 found here: http://secondlife.com/corporate/cs.php

    One of the “leaving the group” notes stated “We can’t, as a group, pick and choose when we stand up for our values.
    If it’s wrong for someone outside DiS or someone who isn’t a creator, then it’s wrong for us as well folks. “

    I stand behind that, 100%. If Tenshi has done anything to violate the ToS, I will not stand by and do nothing. But I also will not stand by and allow her to be accused, tried, and convicted of something without proof of wrongdoing.

    I was told that I should expect “a higher moral standard” from the group. Valid point? I don’t know. What I do know is that with nearly 150 people in that group, there are at least that many sets of “moral standards.” I do not want to be responsible for the “moral standards” of 150 people. It’s enough to keep up with my own. If I enforced my moral standards on the group, there wouldn’t be a group! But what I can enforce, and will enforce is the SL ToS and Community Standards.

    Whether she has done anything wrong or not, NO ONE deserves to be treated the way she was in that group chat. I am still undecided if I should just disband the group entirely if that is the way people are going to act towards each other. I want no part of that. I don’t want to facilitate it, I don’t want to condone it. I don’t want to even be associated with it. See, my own personal moral standards there.

    Personally, I as a content creator and as someone who is advocating for IP protection, cannot find fault with either Tenshi or the person selling the textures of the statue when it is a full permissions item. Unless I grossly misunderstand what “full permissions” means, I fail to see how Tenshi has done anything wrong, either by the creator of the statue or the seller of the textures from said statue.

  70. Dragger Lok says:

    That you as a creator do not understand creator supply permissions being full perm is shocking, this means the texture packs you may have or may someday purchase at Textures R Us and full perm sculpty packs to you is fair game …

  71. Dragger: Did you seriously read and comprehend Tigerlily’s comment? I think not.

  72. Dragger Lok says:

    Sure did… the fact that “afterwards” you discovered the item had been a freebie and you were taken is not the point…. at the moment you sent them out as freebies you did not know what they were- you went on full permissions as if that was a license to do with as you please with them- that is the point. It’s convenient to go back and try to make it feel better- you did not know at the time you sent them out what they were- which is pretty shabby to begin with only your hopes that they weren’t stolen. So it’s easy to claim full perms is some sort of mysterious thing- but as a creator you and Tigerlily should know better…

  73. Oh for the love of god.

  74. slshopaholic says:

    Maybe it’s just me, but don’t creators/designers know that if they leave full perms, chances are their work will be redistributed and maybe ripped off. This is the chance they take with leaving full perms on something. I hate to be a negative nancy, but it’s the truth.

  75. Dragger Lok says:

    Yes- but textures which all creators need when purchased come full perms- we pay extra for sculpties single or in packs to have them full perms, the condition of the copyright and sale are that they are not to be resold or given away- kinda a mix of law and honor system

  76. Dragger Lok says:

    * resold as is* they can be incorporated into a build (creation) and sold.

  77. Dragger Lok says:

    “Giving something out with FULL permissions means FULL permission to do whatever you want with it. Doesn’t it? Correct me if I’m wrong, please, but I’m pretty sure that what it means.”

    See above and consider yourself corrected …
    *if by “giving something out” in your world encompasses selling.

  78. Dragger, I don’t believe you understand what I was saying.

    When you go buy textures from TRU (and many other places but since you used that one as an example and I know their license, I’ll stick with that one) there is a usage agreement you agree to when you walk in the door. There is also a user license included in each pack you purchase.

    Sculpt map textures and textures sold full perms which are NOT to be given/resold and to be used solely on your own creations *come with* a usage agreement, or a license for use. If you do not follow that usage agreement, the creator has the legal ground to come after you for breaking that agreement.

    I in *no way* condone ignoring or not following a usage license agreement.

    If there is *no terms of use* listed either with the item, in the item description if on SLX/OnRez, or in the box that you purchase, they are full permissions, to do whatever you’d like to do with them.

    If I sell something as full permissions *without* a usage agreement of some kind, I would expect the buyer to do whatever they wanted to with their purchased item(s), including take it apart and sell the pieces.

    Regardless of whether the source of the item in question was a freebie or not, Tenshi is *still* within the usage agreement of the item she purchased, which states: “copyrighted for there its not to be resell as a texture”

    Whether that seller should have taken the maps from the free, full permission, without license statue is a different issue. And unless there’s a usage agreement somewhere that no one seems to be aware of, I don’t see how that seller is not well within his/her legal rights to sell the maps. If there *IS* a usage agreement, that’s different. I purchased the statue myself and didn’t see one, or receive one in the box the statue came in.

  79. “Giving something out with FULL permissions means FULL permission to do whatever you want with it. Doesn’t it? Correct me if I’m wrong, please, but I’m pretty sure that what it means.”

    “See above and consider yourself corrected …
    *if by “giving something out” in your world encompasses selling.”

    I realize now that not everyone understands that an included usage agreement which limits the use of a purchase makes an item *not* full permission. It was a given understanding in my mind, but apparently not everyone else’s.

    I just wanted to clarify that point. And thank you for making me be more specific, as I do *not* want to be misunderstood on this.

    I still stand by my statement: Giving something out with FULL permissions means FULL permission to do whatever you want with it.

    A license or agreement which LIMITS the use, whether marked on a check box in the properties or not, indicates the item is *NOT* full permission.

    I also apologize if my use of “giving something out” or “selling” interchangeably caused confusion. I mean specifically “making something available by any means.”

  80. Dragger Lok says:

    This whole mess comes on the heals of a wonderfully gifted creator in Second Life being the victim of a mentor, of all people, removing copyright and end user instructions from three of his sculpty packs and handed out enemas to 800+ members of a mentors group. In the apology given “full perms means just that, a notecard doesnt mean jack, it is simply the creators wishes” on top of that Cel was lead to think it was one of his packs not three and given to a few needy newbies. He is the creator of SculptyPaint and when he learned of the scope he removed what was once a free program that allowed anyone to create sculpty maps outside of SL and effortlessly import them into Second Life.

    You are incorrect that I did not understand what you were saying- I knew you must have missed this important clarification:

    “I realize now that not everyone understands that an included usage agreement which limits the use of a purchase makes an item *not* full permission. It was a given understanding in my mind, but apparently not everyone else’s. ”

    And there lies the problem- if she had paused to think it would not have been an issue, if she had thought before she went into a defensive posture and replied with an oops .. content theft is such a touchy subject, to say “hope they weren’t stolen” … put yourself in that first mistake, all I’ve seen of this person so far is one mistake after another and a feeding of the vitriol, good people I know have been hurt deeply as it escalated out of control, the first mistake was hers and hers alone the clean up should be on her shoulders.

  81. Dragger Lok says:

    *heels* my bad

  82. Okay normally I could continue bashing Tenshi. I indeed hate her, after the nice post she did about my store which was not true at all. But I’m an adult I handle situations like that different and since SL seems to me like a Kindergarten each day, I would like to say something.

    I agree with Lilly no one should be treated like that. SL is a community not a new police station and I’m tired of XXX copied XXX and another XXX ripped YYY. Many people complain about SL and the fact that this game might not exist in a year. I agree on this, but it’s not about content theft it’s the community that kills with each day the nice game we once was playing.

    Now back to the topic. I wasn’t online as this happened just came home from surgery and checked my Emails/IM’s. I was like wtf is goin on now and did a search on the group notices. There it was, many people left others just blamed Tenshi and I logged off. I don’t wanna deal with that !

    Next day I logged in and thought about that again. I did some searches . I spend hours on SLEX searching through the “freebies” and Biab’s. Indeed there is a other person selling those “freebies” and still no license.

    I messaged the original creator and yes it is not my job and as mentioned earlier I could jump on that Train and fuck Tenshi but hey that’s not my style. I got the following Message from the Original Creator after I told him that Tensi got in trouble giving out those Textures and I would like to know if there is a License or any other agreement.

    Original Creator :

    “Hi Jasmin, thank you for letting me know. I’ve known about the slx item for a few days now, i just haven’t gotten around to filing a claim. I’ll have to contact Tenshi so she can get a better set of the same thing… which is in the library, haha. Search for “Twisty” in your inventory and open it. I wish the lindens would name it properly so chumps wouldn’t try selling it. :/ anyways, yes, thank you for letting me know. :) Pumpkin Tripsa”

    I do understand that some people had a problem with Tenshi giving those Textures out without any knowledge who created em, or if they are ripped or legal. However instead of creating such huge drama you could just message the Original Creator and ask, like I did. I don’t know if that helps but I hate just black and white as right and wrong . there are always more points to add , takes a bit longer but it’s still worth it eh ? :)

  83. Dragger Lok says:

    Always enjoy people throwing “police” around like it’s a dirty word or some clever discussion stopping revelation.

  84. Always enjoy people throwing “narcissism, contrite, racism” around like it’s a smart word or some clever way to show us, how stupid you are….. did you realise this happens most of the time when People can not find any other Arguments or Methods to force their Opinion on others ?

  85. Dragger Lok says:

    touchy aren’t you- so quick to judge other peoples reactions- can’t hold your temper

  86. Dragger Lok says:

    “I hate just black and white as right and wrong ” oh what a saint you are- we all should be as wise as you, why didn’t we think of that?

  87. cause you are like others …. just stupid no worries comes natural and you should get used to. I think no one gives a crap what you are talkin …. specially after your “narcissism” speach. However I make it easy to understand even for lowlifes like you are…. I would have a reason to bash Tenshi , more then others do and have never done it…. I messaged the Creator which was 10 minutes of my Time to find out that Tenshi did nothing wrong….. If you can not handle this fact well don’t bother me with that…. go back to suck the end of a huge brown dick and be happy like George Carlin says, if you don’t know him hell get a knowledge. Now are we done here or do you need some other attention I’m always down to pamper some baby asses :)

  88. Holy moly! I came across this while searching for who’s blogged my stuff. This isn’t quite what I had in mind, haha.

    If I may put in my 2 cents… Anyone wishing to find out where the piece came from can simply search for “Twisty” in their inventory, rez it and open it. Viola. Made for the Sculpted Prim Contest way back when and entered into the library as part of the contest terms. I packed it in that box just as I have done for many other pieces and whoever was in charge of adding the sculpty to the library wasn’t up to speed on labeling. It would be nice if that could change but I have no clue who to talk to. Whatever.

    I’m not mad at anyone. Though I’d prefer the creator tab on the stuff to be mine, I’ll not lose any sleep. I’ve learned so much since the creation of that anyways, that it seems a bit low quality, and I’d probably freebie it now if it wasn’t before.

    For the poor people who bought stuff that’s been in their inventory since its creation… I honestly feel sorry for you. You can get in the long line of people who’ve purchased it over the past 10 months… some as high as L$900 a pop, and send negative energy to the chumps who try to rip people off. Do I feel Tenshi is in that category? Of course not… moshiach yohkoh is the culprit in this instance. Busy as I’ve been, I’ve procrastinated filing a DMCA on the fool, so if anyone’s to blame, it would be me, and I’m sorry. That will be done immediately.

    My work is created in the hopes of bringing peace and joy to people, and this whole bit is quite a shame. Hopefully this issue can be laid to rest.

    apologies,
    ~Pumpkin Tripsa

  89. I just read Tigerlily’s statements about terms of use and such. She’s right. I think? I’m not a legal guru. The nature of my DMCA claim is that he/she claims “copyrighted for there its not to be resell as a texture” I don’t know how this all works exactly, but I don’t think that if you receive an item without a usage agreement you can throw your name on it and say you now own the copyright. Correct me if I’m wrong there, I honestly am very confused by the whole thing.

    befuddled,
    Pumpkin

  90. Heh… Pumpkin, you’re not the only one a little confused :) It’s ok, I think it’s all blown over… thanks for stopping by though! You did a great job with those sculpties, I’m just ashamed to admit that I purchased them and lost $200L for something that’s already in my library. Uh, duh. :\

  91. Buri Shalala says:

    Way I see it, not that it matters to anyone here heh. I think everyone missed the fact it’s FULL PERMS i.e. she can do what ever the hell she wants with it because she bought the ability to do so. If they dont want you handing it out to your friends or a group of people then they shouldnt sell full permisions with it.

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