There’s no such thing as an original idea?
Whether this is true or not is debatable, and although you may not come up with something that is an original concept the way you realise that idea is. A leather tub chair is a leather tub chair and there may be thousands of people making them in RL and in SL but they put them together differently and use different materials. In SL this means using different textures and prim layout. There will be differences between different creators even subtle ones.
So, in theory 2 peoples can make the exact same thing in SL and although appearing very similar were made in completely different ways or just happen to use the same sources, look at a lot of recent skin drama where the alleged thief merely bought from the same source as the accuser.  (right click + view to see larger)
Bethany and Colleen from The Loft are well known builders, and Barnesworth Anubis is extremely well known. Colleen and Bethany got in touch after they were told about someone remaking their stuff. SlyFox Stradling has now removed these builds from her vendors.
Now, all benefit of the doubt goes out the window once you realise that the textures used are the exact same textures as the loft, even named the loft 
. These textures were made by Bethany and are not for sale, they have the same UUID so were not even reuploaded.
– Instant message logging enabled –
[8:53]Â SlyFox Stradling: hi.. I’m very sorry I’m not sure whats going on but, I have not stolen any content. I make most of my own textures and also use blender for my sculpts and poser 8 for animations. I have been playing second life about 5 years now and I have never stolen anything from anyone. i had a look at your item, which i did remake from a photo i saw on slx. it is quite different however. My boxes are much lower prims and the textures are a bit different as well.
[8:55]Â SlyFox Stradling: Do not come back to my island. there is no need for your jealousy.
[8:59]Â Bethany Heart: Hi SlyFox
[8:59]Â Bethany Heart: sorry I was away
[8:59]Â SlyFox Stradling: Hi.
[8:59] Bethany Heart: Excuse me, but I am not jealous. lol
[8:59] SlyFox Stradling: well.. I didn’t steal your items hun. And the accusation is appalling.
[9:00]Â Bethany Heart: I really have no interest in arguing with you, but seriously lets put our builds next to eachother
[9:00]Â Bethany Heart: and you can explain the similarities
[9:00]Â SlyFox Stradling: sure
[9:00]Â Bethany Heart: it appears that… you have made a *version* of my build
[9:00]Â SlyFox Stradling: I know they look similar. I recreated it from a photo
[9:00]Â Bethany Heart: Why would you do that?
[9:00]Â SlyFox Stradling: Yes
[9:00] Bethany Heart: I mean, if you make your own textures and original art… and custom builds
[9:00]Â SlyFox Stradling: Someone asked me to make it actually. It was a custom build.
[9:00]Â Bethany Heart: why would you need to copy it?
[9:00]Â SlyFox Stradling: Its about 50 prims less than yours
[9:01]Â Bethany Heart: Look, I understand the logistics
[9:01]Â Bethany Heart: But as a creator… don’t you respect other peoples work?
[9:01]Â SlyFox Stradling: So, youre telling me, you havent looked at something on second life and recreated it to your own devices?
[9:01]Â Bethany Heart: Sure there’s loopholes but you don’t have to copy other people works and be a good builder in SL
[9:01]Â SlyFox Stradling: I do, and I removed the house from the collection.
[9:01]Â Bethany Heart: actually, no
[9:02]Â Bethany Heart: I do look elsewhere for inspiration, but it’s usually pictures from builds in RL
[9:02]Â Bethany Heart: mostly I just start throwing prims down
[9:02]Â Bethany Heart: and a build comes together
[9:02]Â SlyFox Stradling: I know.
[9:02]Â Bethany Heart: I would never copy someone elses work.
[9:03]Â SlyFox Stradling: Look, as I said.. I didnt ‘copy’ it. I do not use a copy machine. I remade it with mega prims
[9:03]Â Bethany Heart: It’s still wrong. :-\
[9:03]Â Bethany Heart: But you don’t need me to lecture you.
[9:03]Â SlyFox Stradling: And, I removed it because you are right.
[9:03]Â SlyFox Stradling: It was wrong
[9:03]Â Bethany Heart: Seriously, Sly… I went to your store
[9:03]Â SlyFox Stradling: I’m sorry.
[9:04] Bethany Heart: Building isn’t that hard here, you have a big store with lots of things to offer. You do not need to depend on other peoples ideas to create nice things.
[9:04]Â SlyFox Stradling: lol
[9:04]Â SlyFox Stradling: I don’t
[9:04]Â Bethany Heart: then what about the Barnesworth Anubis build?
[9:04]Â SlyFox Stradling: Ans since you have been to my store, I’m sure you noticed.
[9:04]Â Bethany Heart: was that a custom project as well?
[9:04]Â SlyFox Stradling: Someone showed me a link
[9:04]Â SlyFox Stradling: Asked me to make it less prims
[9:04]Â SlyFox Stradling: So, I did
[9:05]Â SlyFox Stradling: I have never even been to your store.
[9:05]Â SlyFox Stradling: I never leave my island actually.
[9:06]Â SlyFox Stradling: is Phemie Alcott you?
[9:06]Â Bethany Heart: no lol
[9:06]Â Bethany Heart: she is my best friend… she messaged you?
[9:06]Â SlyFox Stradling: Very nice language
[9:06] Bethany Heart: okay, I apologize for the way she spoke to you. I had no idea she contacted you but seriously…
[9:07]Â Bethany Heart: Sly you should stop stealing from other peoples work and ideas
[9:07] Bethany Heart: Idea theft is no different from copybotting. It’s not excusable.
[9:07]Â SlyFox Stradling: Listen, I remade yours. once.
[9:07]Â SlyFox Stradling: I didn’t think about it offending anyone since it was not exact
[9:07]Â Bethany Heart: OH
[9:07]Â Bethany Heart: and I almost forgot this… I went back last night up to the rezzer platform things
[9:07]Â Bethany Heart: you have copybotted furniture from my store
[9:07]Â SlyFox Stradling: yes
[9:08]Â Bethany Heart: same sculpts
[9:08]Â Bethany Heart: same textures
[9:08]Â Bethany Heart: explain your way out of this one… lol
[9:08]Â SlyFox Stradling: i heard your friend say copybot also. I don’t have this. and I didn’t copy it.
[9:08]Â SlyFox Stradling: I buy what I can’t make myself from many different places.
[9:08]Â Bethany Heart: okay. where did you acquire this stuff then that magically shows your name as the creator
[9:08]Â SlyFox Stradling: i made them?
[9:08]Â SlyFox Stradling: Do you know how to use blender>?
[9:08]Â Bethany Heart: Maya, actually
[9:10]Â SlyFox Stradling: I think I bought a lot of my stuff full perm from the scuplty mall.
[9:10] Bethany Heart: I have been around a very long time myself. I’ve spent countless hours working in photoshop, in maya, just building here on SL and it really sucks to have someone think they can just steal your work
[9:10]Â SlyFox Stradling: but, i can even show anyone the obj files
[9:10]Â Bethany Heart: well you will have to
[9:10]Â SlyFox Stradling: I have it happen frequently myself.
[9:10]Â SlyFox Stradling: lol
[9:10]Â SlyFox Stradling: I won’t have to do anything.
[9:11]Â Bethany Heart: well LL has to discern for themselves if the work is copied
[9:11]Â Bethany Heart: you’ve been AR’d
[9:11] SlyFox Stradling: You should copyright your items through Second Life’s website
[9:11]Â Bethany Heart: and we’re going to file DMCA’s against you
[9:11]Â SlyFox Stradling: Thats fine, and I hope it won’t bother you to know that if even one thing is different, It is not yours.
[9:12]Â SlyFox Stradling: And there are a lot of things different
[9:12] Bethany Heart: You’ve removed all three versions of my house from your store? Including the sky platforms?
[9:12]Â SlyFox Stradling: I only had 2 up. a furnished and an empty.
[9:12]Â Bethany Heart: there were 3
[9:12]Â Bethany Heart: vendors
[9:12]Â Bethany Heart: two on the left
[9:12]Â Bethany Heart: one on the right
[9:15]Â SlyFox Stradling: Well, I’m not having the discussion anymore. I did apologise for offending you.
[9:15]Â Bethany Heart: I also strongly suggest you remove Barnesworth’s build
[9:15]Â SlyFox Stradling: I have some things I need to see to. Have a good day, and good luck with your appeals
[9:15]Â Bethany Heart: good luck to you as well
[9:17]Â SlyFox Stradling: I have not taken anyone elses ideas.. and It really pisses me off to no end you would suggest it.
[9:17]Â SlyFox Stradling: lol
[9:17]Â Bethany Heart: well again, take me up on the lets put our builds down next to eachother
[9:17]Â Bethany Heart: idea
[9:17]Â SlyFox Stradling: Who is barnsworth?
[9:17]Â Bethany Heart: Barnesworth Anubis
[9:17]Â SlyFox Stradling: dont know him
[9:17]Â Bethany Heart: your oriental prefab that is a copy of his
[9:17]Â SlyFox Stradling: which of my items was supposed to be his?
[9:17]Â Bethany Heart: I could show you
[9:18]Â SlyFox Stradling: This is absurd. Have happy holidays.
Remaking something you’ve seen on the grid you own way is not AR’able, although pretty shitty and unethical, you can remake something you’ve seen using your own prims and your own textures. This is not however what SlyFox has been doing, she claims that she is remaking some of the builds, but copybotting textures and other builds doesn’t really help her case. Plus if you were a builder who was asked to remake a build but ‘better’ would you really make it look exactly the same? or would you make improvements, alter the look to some extent?
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hmmm dodgy, and her name doesn’t exactly do her any favours either. I thought it was Slyfox Trading at first
Damn was hoping to see the deer in headlights moment when the counterfeiter was shown the matching UUIDs lol.
Burn’em.
This has happened to my partner Sable too… Granted, it wasn’t much, just a couple of design ideas we have at NuRepublik and the copies weren’t identical, but it was sheer chance that we spotted them whilst looking for something totally unrelated. It turns out that the creator saw the designs, liked them and recreated them, albeit with different textures and not verbatim with the dimensions, but still recognisable enough. As it happens, we’re now working with the other person on other projects and are friends, but it just goes to show that once your idea leaves your imagination and becomes ‘real’ in a virtual environment, it’s no longer looked upon as your idea….
I like the ending to that story. YAY
Thats a really good story. Why isn’t there an article about something happy like this???
“Remaking something you’ve seen on the grid you own way is not AR’able, although pretty shitty and unethical,”
No, it’s called healthy competition out in real world. Calling competion shitty and unethical is nothing but hilarious. Now please grow up everybody.
But, to imitate a design totally, as for example Peter Strindberg did with a chair, that is just on the edge. He could be in danger for copyright infringement. The courts still has to decide weather a digital imitaion has’ striking similarity’ to a real chair.
http://greeneconcept.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/expo-05.png
Healthy competition is remaking something and improving it, giving it an edge, just remaking it is lazy and boring, but SlyFox wasnt remaking, thats kinda the point
This was not even a remake though. It was downright botted. Remake suggests that you see it then do your own textures/sculpts etc etc. That did not happen in this case. She used the same textures, even parts of the store (the pillars and planters) that is not set for sale.
Yeah, um… same textures and same prim placement = total rip.
I like how she tries to weasel her way out of it though… bitch.
Copying is boring is all I have to say.
Well that’s a pretty clearcut case of IP theft and possible copybot too.
It’s one thing to make your own version of something, to be inspired by something. It’s no different from looking at pic in a book and I see no harm in that. But this person has stolen from Bethany, which is not acceptable.
Dear getyafactsstraight, we at GREENE concept have written communication with the chair manufacturer. They even sent us the CAD files for the chair and were thrilled that we re-created them in SL. Their only request was that we did not use their name – apart from that they gave us approval for what we did.
So, yes, get your facts straight.
Oh, and it’s “Stindberg”, not “Strindberg”.
oh that’s just great then.
OK, please don’t think I’m taking sides, or am defending anyone, but I am genuinely interested to hear the answers to my question… is the general consensus that it’s ok to copy or heavily imitate something in RL and bring it into SL but copying or creating a very similar version of something already in SL is generally deemed ‘wrong’?
No, i don’t think its ok, its unimaginative and boring, inspiration is one thing, direct copies are another.
Ok. Understood…who decides where the line between inspiration and copying lies? I’m thinking of items such as PornStars…there are also lots & lots of creators who photo source their designs from RL outfits, they literally copy and paste bits from a RL pic onto a SL template. Do we hunt those people down too? If not why not? Who has the legitimacy to say what is ok and what isn’t? I am against content theft. But I am also against the rampant hypocrisy that currently permeates most individual’s attitudes towards IP rights within SL.
That’s when it gets tricky, some things in SL are obvious rips, others are hard to check. If someone has any proof then write a blog post or pass the details onto someone who will. If I see something that is obvious, I write about it and don’t buy from the person.
Why this witchhunt? I really do not understand it. As long as it isn’t illegal, why start hunting down people who hasnt been convited of anything. You know, it has yet to be clarified if a virtual copy can be seen as a real copy of a real thing. Please remember that LL’s TOS isn’t the law. I am not sure at all that what they do is legal, when they for example just delete Miko Omegamus content,even though there TOS dictates that we dont own anything, not evn the lindens we earn. The TOS is what you can call a contract of adhesion.
You, person, are obviously a very dense human being. Kudos for not being afraid to show it.
Lol… look in the mirror ^^
When you log in and you can line up two textures pixel for pixel, shade for shade, hell, even UUID for UUID… there’s a major, major problem. I encourage you to go back in the SCD archives, search for “copybot” or “content theft”, and read up.
I was talking about imitaion of Real Life items.
Imitation is pathetic, but anyway, why are you so off topic? Stick to the OP.
If it’s clothes, then you can’t copyright clothing designs. You can however copyright details, and patterns like the Burberry one.
In depth info here:
http://www.expertbusinesssource.com/blog/720000272/post/700011870.html
More about ‘striking similarity’ here
http://www.dcdr.dk/uk/Menu/Update/Webzine/Articles/The+Oil+of+the+21st+Century
I think it’s an interesting question you are posing Amira.
Outright use of RL company names like Chanel, Dior, etc. are probably likely illegal and should be dealt with by LL.
Slightly modified RL company names for stores in SL producing the same kind of content as the RL company are just tacky to me and tell me a lot about the person doing that.
That said, I probably have items in my inventory that are exact copies of a RL product, but it’s likely because I don’t know it IS an exact copy – after all, how many different kinds of high tops are out there in RL? Or high heels? Or leather jackets?
I refrain from buying things that are trademarked/copyrighted/whatever in RL and sold in SL – like Hello Kitty, Wolverine, Nightmare before Christmas, etc. (list is endless, it’s that rampant in SL), because that is illegal, to my knowledge.
Thievery is thievery, there are no shades of grey. When it comes to survival, I can certainly forgive it (a mother stealing bread for her children), but it IS still theft, and therefore wrong.
Argh, overkill in first paragraph there (probably likely illegal). Pick the one you like best there…
Logos, comapny names etc. are protected as a trademark. That is diferent from copyright. You can make a virtual pair of Diesel jeans as long as you dont use the detalis that are coyrighted, or the logo that is trademark-protected. (still refering to RL rip offs here)
Please let there be no doubt that I in NO way agree with content theft. My point is that in my opinion we do not have the ability (nor the judicial right) to police this issue ourselves. It is hypocritical to judge some IP theft as wrong but then, when someone raises the point as I did regarding items like PornStars, throw your arms up and claim that as being okay. If something is wrong then it is wrong, it can’t be wrong for some things but acceptable for others. I understand some people will say that this particular situation is different because EXACT textures, objects were copied, my response to that is who has the right to say that that is where the line of what is ok and not ok is drawn? It’d be easier if the law itself was clear on what is and what is not legal in these situations, but it isn’t. I do not believe the answer lies in spreading panic and misinformation. The answer lies in the community as a whole requiring greater transparency of ALL content creators and better communication and education.
Amen to that Amira. Well put.
That’s a very good point. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong. I think people might instinctively try to defend PornStars because they are so well built. But that just means that they are well built AND wrong. They two concepts are not mutually exclusive.
I believe this is a legit post and worthy of being reported. The point you make Amira is and has been my problem with SCD for a while. It’s attack some and look the other way for others. But I digress, according to the admin we’re way off topic
Where are these ‘others’ you speak of? show me something
I liked the bit about “I hope it won’t bother you to know that if even one thing is different, It is not yours”
Actually, that’s true. If one little part is different, you don’t have a claim…. for that one little part. You claim is still valid for all the rest, of course.
I had a similar encounter with someone who felt I had stolen her work since I had created something similar in SL. However, I had never seen her work before. She was really just mad that we had both recreated the same device in SL, an orrery. I wrote an article regarding my thoughts about that incident and original ideas at http://www.curioobscura.com/2008/12/27/original-ideas/
Pornstars isn’t doing anything legally wrong though, as you can’t copyright snakers. Not to nhave any kind of sneakers in SL would be totally daft too no? And… like the rest of the commenters here i’m still talking about imitaion of RL objects :p.
In the episode with Strinbergs emeco chair, he apparantly has cleared the rights. So could many imitators out there have done. To play police and go with hunting is ranging from stupid to illegal as in slander.
Now is it okay to be illegal as long as your not copybotting?
yea… I know i should spellcheck… but lifes to short.
GAH ANOTHER PERSON WHO DOESN’T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIBEL AND SLANDER!!!!!
Darkley since you like to “educate” the public why don’t you proceed to do so?
You alluded to something, now come on, share with the group
No but the Drunks with the Nike sign is wrong…same designer right?
okay… Libel
I lul at all of the personal opinions and misinformation being posted in the comments section as the absolute truth. LOL !!!
And some of the people posting are correct – lots of illegal well- made product in SL that nobody really speaks out against and if they do the issue is dismissed.
Mainly shoes with blatant trademark infrngement taking place. For the point of example – soreal shoes flat out use the adidas logo. Hoorenbeek does the same with the Nike and new balance logo. The list is long yet their sins are pardened; either because the individual is a friend or a decent person with a well made product.
Seeing something and being inspired to make your own version of it from scratch should be ok IMO. What the person did in the article was blatantly ripping and stealing…which brings me to the products mentioned made by Hoorenbeek,et al.
I had always assumed they were ok’d to produce these items by the companies who own the trademarks. If they aren’t, they really should consider not using those trademarked symbols on anything-that goes for anyone doing it not just Hoorenbeek-because they are profiting from IP of another company.
Intellectual Property rights and content theft don’t apply to just the confines of Second Life, which is a bigger picture kinda thing. Stealing is stealing.
I made a Christmas tree and after putting it in SL I have seen dozens of Christmas trees just like mine! Do I demand they all delete their Christmas trees?
If it was a true copy, that’s criminal — but very similar, different prim count — lets face it — imitation is the purest form of flattery.
No it isnt, and id like to debate whoever came up with that line.
A christmas tree is far more generic than a uniquely crafted architectural build.
I made the very first skin in SL.I now demand you all take off your skins you purchased because they all used my designs.if i see anyone wearing a skin that is not Grey i will ask LL to issue a notice
signed ADAM and EVE on behalf of GOD the almighty Creator of all thngs we see
PS on the 8th day God made Photoshop
Lol.
Same goes for me, I made the first pirate ship that drives in SL.
Plz delete all your boats and only use my crappy outdated version from 5 years ago.
Yarr.
We gottem runnin for the hills Ziek all them pretty little bloggers they dont like being beaten
pssst ladies and gents if you wanna stop rampant swapping and transfer of clothing and hair and other stuff look for a group with 9000+ members
I got heaps of stuff from someone i ditched all of course got no use for hair or female items
just wanted to see what was in it
Hmm wonder if that group is on your protected list ??????
protected list?
Tell me the group, you can always IM me about it