Comments on: Choose your own trademark adventure: Ozimals versus Ben Schumann

By: Ozimals Beta Continues – Candy bites at… someone? « SL Bunnies

Ozimals Beta Continues – Candy bites at… someone? « SL Bunnies — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:49:30 +0000

[...] out of the loop, but I haven’t the faintest idea whats put a bee in her bonnet. Recently, A blog posted a story about the owner of some regions allegedly threatening to steal her trademark and [...]

By: Business-in-your-box

Business-in-your-box — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:08:43 +0000

good job Sherlock

By: Kasen Kazan

Kasen Kazan — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:06:27 +0000

Agreeed! Who ever gets the trademark first wins! So many creators will pass up paying the $300 plus to trademark their name! So someone could trademark (example Xcite) then turn around and make LL stop
Xcite in SL rename all of their products.

By: Kasen Kazan

Kasen Kazan — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:01:27 +0000

I think that Germany has some screwed up trademark laws. Has always been some issues with Germany trademarks.

By: Kasen Kazan

Kasen Kazan — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:58:48 +0000

The U.S. trademark gives you the option to trademark for just the U.S. or make it a world trademark. The former being more $$ to do.
So If it is just a U.S. trademark, would be hard to make something of it, unless you consider that LL is a U.S. company. Being world wide with severs all over, don't know how that would work out.

By: Isle

Isle — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:51:26 +0000

Sounds to me like he did a land rush to capitalize on the upcoming animals to be created, and wants to be known for/have a monopoly for controlling having them being sold out of the named sims he bought.

No different from people grabbing up all new domain names related to new products online, so they can camp on them and make bucks either in tranferring names, or trying to host thier own watered down version, and profit by having the popular names associated.

I am usually level headed about these things, but it smells like fast-buck line dancing to me, and that is a bad smell.

Also… seems to me there was an intimation of a plan to use these sims for a knock-off, if Ozimals doesnt partner up.

I call 'opportunistic asshat' on this one.

This also has nothing to do with knocking someone's language skills, and kudos to moo and Candy for trying to get this clear.

By: Candy_Cerveau

Candy_Cerveau — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:23:49 +0000

Hi Eliza, yes of course anyone can sell the bunnies and also any products you might make for them. We've made that clear from the beginning on our website, blog and forums (not that I assume you read those but just for the history) I'm sorry this post has made things confusing. It was never about trying to keep people from advertising using Ozimals – it was about theft and threats from a single person. Hope this clears it up for you

By: Business-in-your-box

Business-in-your-box — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:17:30 +0000

the moral of the story is: don't do business in SL if you lack communication skills, and/or if you're a moron who harasses successful people in sl to make a fast buck.

its sad that there are people who are after a free ride in SL, those who want free traffic, free lindens. This Ben Schumann guy is not much more than a beggar… THATS RIGHT … A SL BEGGAR!

By: Dove Swanson

Dove Swanson — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 06:29:59 +0000

Yeah, this line makes me do a double-take too:

Ben Schumann: you wanths me make trouble is ok

That sounds A LOT like "you want me to make trouble, okay!" – sounds like a threat to me.

I just don't buy that everything from start to finish was lost in translation – there is a good dose of common sense involved and if it walks/quacks/looks….wellllll…..:p

By: Dove Swanson

Dove Swanson — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 06:26:33 +0000

lol There will be a market…the details on how/what/when/where are not out there yet, though.

Bunny pervs!

By: Ann Otoole

Ann Otoole — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 06:15:48 +0000

maybe program the rabbits to be unhappy and die without reproducing if rezzed in that guy's regions? That shoulf fix that.

By: Candy Cerveau

Candy Cerveau — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 02:01:37 +0000

I'd just like to clarify a few points, if I may. First, as you can see from our first exchange I was very polite to Mr. Schumann and even asked him to check back with me about a location in his sim after the launch. After not receiving the answer he wanted, he acquired our official logo without permission, placed it by itself in the About Land picture on his land and ticked the box for it to show in search that way.

The fact that he essentially stole our logo and used it without permission after our first conversation was very disturbing and I felt it deliberately misled people who might be searching for Ozimals to see just our logo in the photo for that land.

Let me be clear here – We are *thrilled* that people are excited about Ozimals and we absolutely welcome businesses, groups, and individuals to include our name in their classifieds and land if they are selling the bunnies or products for them. The SOLE reason I asked him to remove the name from the description part of the land was because the theft of our logo made me uncomfortable, and I don't think it was a rash or unreasonable reaction under the circumstances.

I cannot see how translation would have made any difference in our second conversation. I have gotten several opinions on the exchange and all of them said they also perceived several threats in the conversation. The fact that he accused me of lying on top of that seems to put the “bad translation” excuse to bed.

If it had ended there I would have been happy to let the entire situation die – however Mr. Schumann proceeded to go around to several locations around the grid and make disparaging remarks about me and how ~I~ made trouble for ~him~, which I find incredibly ironic. In the end, you cannot control what a person may say, but I believe my reputation and actions speak for themselves and will continue to do so.

By: Ann Otoole

Ann Otoole — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:50:30 +0000

Second Life abides by actual law and does not make law. If you trademark your name it is yours and you can issue cease and desist orders and LL must follow them. As recently happened with "OWK" (other World Kingdom) which might make for a juicier story IMHO because the action is real and has been going on for a while. OWKtm was placed for opposition today so the fight is on. You can read the saga here: http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=296…

As for the person with "broken english" the broken is a tad too good. Not to mention the fact there are instances of perfect English in there. So in this case since the mark is applied for it is currently tm and once the opposition phase is complete it should change to the R in a circle. So the Ozimals folks need to proceed accordingly with unrelenting brute legal force to defend their mark IMHO.

By: Eliza Wrigglesworth

Eliza Wrigglesworth — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:35:40 +0000

Good point. Yes, I think he was trying to make a quick buck from someone else's hard work and creativity, and I think he was trying to intimidate her also. When he found out how much trouble he'd get into, he backed off so far as to not want to type out the word "Ozimal".

What an ass.

By: ~H~

~H~ — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:33:09 +0000

He's a douche. He was only kissing up to Candy via moo after the fact. Bleh.

By: Eliza Wrigglesworth

Eliza Wrigglesworth — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:32:46 +0000

This is just an opinion, as I never got into the chicken craze, and I probably won't do bunnies either, but if you're not allowed to sell what you breed, then the only point to having the breeders is to watch bunnies being "affectionate".

Eww, and wtf?

By: Baily

Baily — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:20:14 +0000

I tend to think he thought he saw an opportunity to trademark something someone else wanted to trademark and make a fast buck, therefore restricting her use of it and giving control to himself. A bit like buying a domain name of a big company before they do, then selling it for big buck.

Incidentially, what protection do LL provide for business names, if someone inadvertently choose the same business name as yours. Is it sort of trademarked within SL?

By: Dove Swanson

Dove Swanson — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:26:20 +0000

I might be a bit biased, I'd like to think not …but these parts really red-flag for me:

Ben Schumann: and i look the tradmarside from USA this is not a tradmark and i make now one on this name
Ben Schumann: bye
Ben Schumann: you can make a new name i make now a trademark
Ben Schumann: i look in the us trademark DB you have nosing
Ben Schumann: the name is not safe
Ben Schumann: i can make a sim with the name ozimals

What part of that reads as someone confused, or polite, or even curious? It reads like someone completely aware (or at least they think they are) of what they are doing, how they are doing it and why. If you remove all the translation mumbo-jumbo and just read that part as it is, it sounds very threatening, very malicious and full of perfectly clear intent.

It doesn't sound like "oh sorry, I will remove those logos/names, I didn't know you had them trademarked. You should trademark them if you don't already. I only used them to attract people to this sim for your benefit."

By: moomoney

moomoney — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:03:38 +0000

Having been around sion chickens and petable turtles, everyone is trying to make a quick buck off of the creators. That's the whole goal. Whether it be breeders selling their eggs, or even their rare eggs and turtles, or land owners starting up rental sims. There's already a sim called Chickens, as well as probably 100 chicken malls. The turtle malls have already started up and those pets are only like 2 weeks old.

By: Blingtardette

Blingtardette — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:01:30 +0000

However you look at it, he's trying to make a fast buck off someone else's work. I don't blame Candy for muting him. I would probably have done it sooner.

By: moomoney

moomoney — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:59:26 +0000

They have two options. Breeding and non breeding bunnies, so I'm assuming that the breeding ones would be able to be sold. However, Ben won't let anyone sell them on his land because of his conversation with Candy. I would double check with Candy on whether they can be sold at all. They literally just entered beta testing, so this all won't play out for at least another month.

By: Eliza Wrigglesworth

Eliza Wrigglesworth — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:53:37 +0000

I'm a little confused now.

If I breed Ozimal rabbits, and get a little parcel of land to sell them, am I not allowed to advertise that I'm selling Ozimal bunnies? Wait, am I even allowed to sell them at all?

By: moomoney

moomoney — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:33:01 +0000

I thought he was German, but some of the stuff he said in German wouldn't even translate when he put it right in front of me. I was talking to him in person, so I could see some of the translations, which I chose to keep in to show how difficult it was to converse with him.

By: Monolock

Monolock — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:27:22 +0000

Ohhhh, he might be dutch using his german knowledge to translate to english as he doesn't have a dutch-english translator. Dutch has a similar sentence structure as English.

By: Monolock

Monolock — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:23:11 +0000

1) German is in no way his first language although he seems to sit infront of a german computer. He is making grammar mistakes (messed-up sentence structure) that i only know in this form by native english speaking people (lol)
2) As some people set up Gore-sims and rent to Gore-roleplayers and Gore-shops he seems to set up a Breeder-sim (new counter culture in SL ), tired to gather people, and suddenly out of the blue was threatened with an AR (as he clearly didn't get that Candy said beyond "i don't want a shop"), trying to defend himself by stating that she has no base for an abuse report.
3) I think both parties were lost in translation, noone is good or evil here, just normal people who have fun in SL their way (unless opening a themed rental-sim per se is evil).
And i really don't get why this ends up in a blog???????

By: Eboni Khan

Eboni Khan — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:08:06 +0000

Moo did a great job presenting the information and letting the reader decide instead of writing with obvious bias. Nice change of pace.

By: Skinkie

Skinkie — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:24:44 +0000

Firstly, kudos to you Moo for a well-balanced, non-emotive post about this. It's refreshing to read.

Secondly, I'm confused. I was under the impression that as Second Life is hosted on US-based servers that all content in SL is governed by US law, not individual user's local laws. If that is correct, then surely it doesn't matter one bit what German Copyright/Trademark law says (other than it may place additional governance under which German citizens must abide – ie. British users paying VAT on income from SL).

Lastly, in cases such as these I believe it would be in the best interests of those concerned to use qualified translation services, of which a number are available in SL charging SL-rates (which, compared to paying for copyright or a sim, is negligable). For less than the cost of a Chocolate Flop-Earred Dutch this could have been a total non-issue.

By: CyclicGearz

CyclicGearz — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:58:41 +0000

Thing is, if I recall right, US Trademark law is recognised as legally binding etc in Germany, just like any other UN member recognises the laws and such of all the other UN countries.

My German isn't the best, but I think he's illiterate even in his own language, because some of his words were just nonsense, even in German.

I do hope the Ozimals team manage to get their name copyrighted, because people like him, trying to make a profit off someone else's business are scummy and will try and use their name.

By: Business-in-your-box

Business-in-your-box — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:44:10 +0000

*avoid misunderstandings

By: Business-in-your-box

Business-in-your-box — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:43:23 +0000

Nevermind that this guy can't speak english, he gets points for being a complete retard – you'd think that if he was going to approach someone who spoke a different language, he'd have prepared a concise notecard or something, and that way would lots of the misunderstandings. But I suppose thats the nature of *business* in SL (or failed business ventures), the wannabe sim lord who has ideas but fails in execution. *Le Sigh*

By: layne Jewell

layne Jewell — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:34:03 +0000

Reading what he told moo, it sounds like he jumped the gun. I think when she said get back with me in a month or so, he thought that was a yes. (I saw that as thanks but really no thanks) So he jumped ahead and put it in search. I think it surprised him when she did say no. I didn't see it as mean but he might of. So i think he went into "push comes to shove" mentality and said some things he regretted. That was shown when moo got a hold of him and he wouldn't refer to the animals by name. He did say "all is ok" so I guess he finally understood he couldn't do this and stopped. If he didn't, well then he is an asshole.
I think sometimes we forget that SL brings so many different cultures to the table. Sometimes what some see as being sincere, others might see as downright rude. This guy was pushy. I have never met Candy personally, but have seen her posts on some of the forums and blogs I read. From what Ive seen, she always seems to be level headed and honest. She was really being nice and trying to say no. He just wouldn't take the no. From what he said it looks like he got the point. ~crosses fingers~

By: Emerald Wynn

Emerald Wynn — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:07:21 +0000

Sometimes I think I'm the only one in Second Life who doesn't have an attorney.

I think this is just a big damn confusing mess. Many of those chicken markets out there have 'sionChickens' in the LM description. I kind of think that's only what Ben was trying to do. But then again, what do I know? I'm just a grown woman trying to participate in a conversation about fake bunnies. (Or 'Bunnys.')

By: whatever

whatever — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:37:54 +0000

I see both sides of this, he seems within his rights to put up some sims for people to farm the animals which probably only helps Candy's sales in the long run. However I'd like to give a massive thumbs up to moo for a well-written post that doesn't jump to conclusions and actually considers more than one viewpoint! I found this terribly refreshing for this blog.

By: Ann Launay

Ann Launay — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:34:47 +0000

If he was just trying to tell her something about German versus US trademark law, I'm not sure why he would have bothered searching for hers and then telling her – repeatedly – that she was lying about it. I mean, if he doesn't believe US trademarks are applicable in Germany, the existence, or lack thereof, of one shouldn't matter.

By: Business-in-your-box

Business-in-your-box — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:59:26 +0000

He may as well put Armidi too in his search and see what happens