Welcome to SLsecret, week 47.
1.)
+ more after the cut
2.)
(Baaah-leeted)
3.)
4.)
5.)
6.)
7.)
8.)
9.)
10.)
Comments are open on this entry.
Comments will be moderated if they break SLsecret posting rules.
SLsecret is published every Sunday at Shopping Cart Disco.
Upload your own secrets for next week here.
About Iris Seale
@#10: That is one of my biggest pet peeves. My UK friend says the Union Jack is worn all the time but I don’t believe in wearing the US flag .ever. I bought an outfit and noticed it had the Union Jack on it and I even refuse to wear that. I’m probably considered very old fashioned but even in RL I won’t wear the flag, my husband won’t, and we won’t let our children. Thanks for saying it, 10. Oh and, if you do wear the flag I won’t bitch at you. I just won’t buy flag products or wear them myself. To each their own.
#10 or using it as a postcard full of typos????
#2, WTF is that?
2. ohh k
3. Totally agree but I’ve learned that people who have no RL take SL and any other net based meeting area very seriously. A hit to their web personality is like a death to them.
7. Wondering if there should be an SL obituary page so we can keep track of the deaths and resurrections.
8. If it’s that serious why is she your “friend”? I think that’s how poison people are able to navigate this game everyone turns the other cheek and stays silent over and over again.
9. But isn’t that what makes America great? You can do what you want to the flag without fear or retribution from the government. If you have respect for America you must also know that it’s more than just the Stars and Bars.
@1 – I don’t get the “but”.
@3 – Come on, at least in SL they should be able to live what they never can achieve in RL.
@4 – Well, i read “tribal instincts” somewhere before.
@5 – “No drama please”, a well known profile sentence which should flash up all warning lights. Stay away from everyone who even knows the word ‘drama’.
@8 – I once met in SL such a boarderline character with children in RL and it’s really frightening to imagine what psychological damage they will cause in their childeren.
@10 – I thought it’s an integral part of american culture to jump out of a cake in stars and stripes stripperware.
I am looking for some hidden message among those typos. maybe they’ve been made on purpose.
hovering one’s cursor over the secrets is quite interesting.
Wow, this week is nuts.
#10, I love you so much.
I love SLsecret even if I have no idea what most of it is about.
Part of the freedom the flag represents is the right to burn, wear, wipe your ass, etc with the flag. Much as it makes me want to beat that person with a baton, I believe it to be true.
and in fact, I have just realized how to read #10.
I’m slow.
lmao @ rolling cursor over #1.
good week, some were actually secrets, #2 confused me. Is that a secret or an advertisment?
A-farking-men to #10 … grow up & show a little respect, SL residents. You wanna honor our flag? Honor the men and women who have given their lives defending it for over 200 years? Why not take down that hideous glowing purple tree and put up a flag on your SL property? Or better yet … your RL property!
And to Adric … I totally agree and will always defend THOSE individuals rights to do exactly what you’re talking about. (BUT … doesn’t mean I have to like it or respect them …)
*Proudly serving in the US Air Force for 13 years*
#7 : Whew. Boy am I glad someone publicly mentioned that.
Someone tell me what is up with #2?
#2 looks like an advertisement to me for everyone’s favorite free sex zone.
Okay, never mind on #2… I just had it explained to me and HAHAHAHAH
Sometimes I think the highest honor you can do our flag is to wear it, or burn it. Because isn’t that what its all about? Having the freedom to do that?
When the US was formed, you couldn’t do that in most of the world (monarchies). You couldn’t speak out against the government, you couldn’t wear the symbol of the government and you certainly couldn’t desecrate it or burn it. Such a thing would get you, very literally, hung or beheaded.
Symbolism was very important to our founding fathers. The Boston Tea Party is a good example of this. The ability to desecrate a symbol, no matter how much it was honored, was important to them. Burning or wearing the flag in a kind of cool way, is honoring that.
So yes #10. I do believe it. And every time I see it I am reminded of how lucky I am to live in a society that allows such a thing and counts it as one of our basic freedoms.
And just FYI, this Fourth of July I will, as I have for every Fourth of July for at least the last 10 years and maybe more, celebrate, in part, by participating in a public reading of the Declaration of Independence. Just for you, I may do it this year while burning a flag. You have inspired me.
Yeah I lol’d too.
could you explain #2 to me cause i don’t get it
#7, I wish you would tell me which two sims you are referring to. I would love to see them for myself. I hope you are wrong about them.
#2 Whats the point in even bothering? Noone cares what these people did anymore and everyone treats them as normal human beings when they are the lowest of the low along with other people that are the \”greatest\” that had to get their kicks destroying others self esteem everyone seems to forget after a while sadly
Stella, these two did not die. They claimed the economy as the reason for their departure.
Hey cool, now that I know we can submit advertisements under the guise of a “secret” (complete with slurls and identifying marks which has always been against the rules in the past) I’ll be sure to upload mine weekly. Thanks for the free ad space SCD!
Summer Haas
I’m so out of the loop, totally mystified by #2. As for #1, Dancien’s in looooove, that’s sweet!
Actually, I know what #2 is about and let it go thru even though it breaks the rules. I’m a fickle SLsecret master, muahahahaha.
Uh, I don’t do secrets. I think it may have been about me. I am confused.
Awwwwww Dancien has a GIRLFRIEND…….(or a boyfriend, you know it doesn’t really SAY)……..
If you know what #2 is about Iris, and you let it go through breaking the rules, then you must explain it.
This is a rule I just made up but it’s now legally binding because I typed it on the interwebs.
DAN AND HIS GIRL-FRIEND SITTIN’ IN A TREE…
@Dusky
I guess I could add a section for SL departure excuses.
I don’t get #2 or #7 so someone fill me in I want lulz too.
#10 I just don’t see wearing flag print as disrespectful at all, I have always thought that as a sign of being proud. Although I would never wear stripes IRL makes one look wider LOL. As for burning the flag, to me that seems disrespectful.
I agree with Gidge. Spill it on #2!
The US Flag Code http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm
Section 8: Respect for the flag.
The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. …
later:
The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning
Burning the flag is preferable to wearing it as clothing. Nothing says I respect my flag by wearing it as panties and staining it with body fluids or wearing it as a shirt and sweating all over and spilling mustard down the front.
#2
Actually…no one from our staff at Hard Alley made that flyer…filling us in about it would be appreciated.
Is 7 a relic? someone send me an IM and fill me in. I’m just too far out of the sl society to know wtf is going on.
#5 You freaking love drama.
re #7
Stella – would we really want to remember people like this, I don’t?
kimberlymirabeau – I totally agree.
Tesa Jewell – these comments should help with #7.
Ann – the #7 photo background looks like Obscure Temple to me.
onik, oink
Wait, so does #7 relate to the owners of Relic then, who left not to long ago citing economic reasons? Or am I way off base?
I’d like to know about the sims mentioned too.
ooooo… I’m getting who #7 is referring to now. Which are the sims that have popped up?
#2 has gone – what did I miss?
#5 – I am so there, and not hiding or ashamed of it :p I always read the drahmaz, but hell, I’d rather give myself a frontal lobotomy than get involved in it. *Crosses fingers and hopes she’s never dragged into any*
Re #7 –
Anyone interested in investigating further should look for Alchemy Immortalis.
Khamudy – Actually on Thursday, April 9, 2009 on http://baronandsue.com/ Baron Grayson stated –
“After the economy took a dive, my real life has had some unexpected turns as well and by adapting, I’ve had little time left for Second Life. I haven’t been able to be inworld since just before Christmas 2008 and I don’t see additional free time appearing to change that. These past few months I have mulled over the best way to wind things down. Actually both Sue Stonebender(my partner) and I are both winding down and going to slowly withdraw our business presences from Second Life entirely.”
So it seems it was “my real life has had some unexpected turns as well and by adapting, I’ve had little time left for Second Life.” as much if not more than the economy that Barn says was responsible for he and Sue leaving SL. He says “Actually both Sue Stonebender (my partner) and I are both winding down and going to slowly withdraw our business presences from Second Life entirely.”
On reading his post to get the exact quote above I noticed this, again by Baron Grayson, which may or may not tie in with #7 and your question. However it can definitely be read as a hint of a return.
” I was reading something the other day that struck me positively. “In the end is our beginning.”. ”
All very interesting.
Was Baron playing at being his own prophet?
Who knows, someone must.
onik, oink
7 – I am relieved that someone else saw this too.
This move spoke volumes that no freebie and new face can erase.
Oink Puddlegum
re #7
Stella – would we really want to remember people like this, I don’t?
++++++++++++++++
Question isn’t if I want to remember them but why they keep coming back. I’d love to forget them but these fake sl quiters wont leave for good.
#7: Gee, is this your first time hearing about people who decide to leave SL and then return, with a new character or with an old one? It happens all the time and there’s no need to get snarky, as if you’re the one who has to manually rewrite the SL database TO. ACCEPT. THE. CHANGE
#2: For a change I actually saw the secret before it got deleted, but for the life of me I can’t remember what it’s all about.
i thought that for *7
i <3 intempest nox!
Stella
I hope we forget them as entities but remember the lesson.
More than that I hope no one supports their attempts to continue to use lies and manipulation to further their SL business.
I for one am boycotting all their products, as personally I believe this type of person only has one sensitive spot – the hip pocket nerve, so I am hitting them where it hurts.
Remember people like this are able to make you feel so very special and wanted – all good whores can.
onik, oink
sue stonebender invited me into SL where i knew her from another online community. i will not speak for her but i will say i have always known sue to have the utmost integrity and i won’t even begin to try to tell of all the things i have seen her do over the years that no one will ever know about.
i don’t know if these sims are hers nor honestly do i care. why? because life changes, plans change, and we don’t know the whole story. (nor do i)
but it is perfectly possible that her plans to leave changed and perhaps she just wanted a “fresh” start. i really have NO idea. nor do i know if it’s her and baron.
i do know for a fact she has battled many illnesses for years and kept VERY private about them until she announced having to scale back in sl and being ‘out’ by the end of the year.
i do not think she would purposely deceive anyone. i have known her very well and that’s not how sue works. period.
and i do know that some people are very private, sue being one of them, and perhaps if her situation changed she decided quietly to just “stay” in sl and not announce to the world “im back!”
anyway, i just as her friend, had to comment as i know her only to be a very giving, supportive person who has giving countless hours to helping those who have been vicitims of every sort of human tragedy form hurricane katrina to genocide to aids, and all done very quietly.
that’s just how she is. she’s never been at “big” events, not in the “fashion scene” and i chose to just believe the best and that if she is in sl or making a transition, there is a reason for it and we don’t know all of what goes on in people’s personal lives.
and frankly, i don’t blame people for keeping private, with “secrets” and such, why be so open when ppl are ready to take you to the fire?
anyway that’s all.
just remember, it is quite possible NO deception was intended, and perhaps plans changed and if it is sue and baron, it is within their rights to silently carry on and not have to inform every one of “why” they aren’t “gone” maybe it seemed easier than saying, “well we’re coming back, etc” and i do know for certain her sims were sold, all but one.
just food for thought, not everyone has some sinister plan to deceive. certainly not a person like sue stonebender.
regarding Sue/Baron’s reincarnation.. people, please, the sooner we can stop pretending/wondering if it’s really them or not, the better. Callie is right – deception might not have been intentional. but they need to come forward publicly, and explain. why you ask? isn’t everyone here entitled to their anonymity and their freedom of identity? well sure.. except that in this case, their stories had the effect, intentional or not, of manipulating buyer sentiment and also raising the value of their existing goods, which they put on sale for a predetermined amount of time. when buyers think that prominent designers are leaving SL forever, as we were all told, the value of what’s left of their creations go up. the same can be said for their sims, which they auctioned off. at the very least, deceiving us about their future plans was immoral. at worst, fraudulent.
drop by the Alchemy Immortalis sims and take a look for yourself. it’s like stepping into a time machine and revisiting many of the RELIC sims we knew so well. pull up their new profiles and read.. the same language, the same unique terms used. still have some doubts? look at their new website, and compare it to their old. for example, these two pages:
http://houseofserendipity.net/privacy.html
http://alchemyimmortalis.com/privacy.html
the content is identical. read the top paragraph on both sites. or are you telling me that it’s common to include a blurb about “embracing the principles of the Canadian Standards Association Model Code for the Protection of Personal Information”. uh, no.
hell, the Alchemy Immortalis site even left in the blurb about Sue’s Giving Tree. under “Submit a Tip”:
“If you submit a tip to be added to our Giving Tree section, the tip may be posted on our site. Your name and province/state/country will only be posted with your consent.”
the evidence goes on, and on, and on. honestly, i really, really hope Baron and Sue don’t think we are quite this stupid. hopefully, there’s a cogent explanation lined up for us all that will make sense of this. but remember Baron and Sue, it must actually make sense.
no, there can be no excuses about change of heart and plans as the weeks and months passed after their fatal announcement. look at the born date of their new avatars – March of this year. drop by the sim and inspect some of their new creations – you’ll see that many were created just days after the April 9th announcement that Baron and Sue were closing up shop and leaving SL forever. clearly, this identify shift was premeditated and carried out in unison. the only question is why?
@#1- Well…being married does not preclude you having a crush..ENJOY it and feel free to flirt at will.
@#3 – “e-fame”? What is that? Why are you SO worried about what someone else is doing on-line? Because they are doing something you can’t and your jealous? Sounds like you are the one who needs to grow up.
@#4- I agree with this statement 200% and it’s really sad. I am quite able to judge a situation or person for myself, thank you. Attacking someone on heresay says alot about the person doing the attacking. Agreeing with someone or something just so you can be accepted is sad and ridiculous.
@#5- Yada, yada, yada, drama, drama, drama…ah shaddup!
@#6- This person will always be alone as they continue to drive those who might be their friend from them by their actions. Please seek RL therapy to address your issues. Others do not deserve to be subjected to your illness.
@#7 – This scenario is so prevalent in SL theses days why is anyone surprised at all anymore? Besides, people could care less about what you think of them and there is little you can do about it happening.
@#8 – You seem to do alot of speaking for “HIM”. Newsflash, girlie! He probably still cyber-fucking her. Why would you “pretend” to be friends with someone you obviously dislike so much?Your afraid of a pixel on a computer? LOL!! Speaks volumes about who is “mad-as-a-cow”.Another newsflash, “HE” probably has kids and a wife, too. Do yourself a big favor, cease being this caught up in the fantasy.
@#9 – Yes people do change but some don’t. If they can’t move on and you have, wish them well and be on your way.
@#10 – Being able to do what we want with the flag without fear of persecution is one of our fundamental rights as Americans. Personally I feel “flag-wear” in any way, shape or form is tacky and tasteless, but that’s just me.
Great job this week SCD!
My ex-partner and I collected all of Baron’s stuff that we did not get buy over the years. I personally don’t care if they decided to start over, that is their prerogative. What I do care about is that they cease selling those items, like they stated they would after Xmas.
I had visited the above mentioned Alchemy sim about 2 1/2 months ago, where my ex-partner said upon landing, that it looked like Baron’s.
I thought it was someone inspired by Baron’s work. Maybe it is a friend of Baron, who Baron had helped. I do not always reach for the conspiracy theory first. It is obvious that Sky Everett’s mainstore uses Baron’s texture work, so he has done landscaping etc. for friends.
Baron and I had an argument 2 years ago, and we peaced out afterwards, so I am treading carefully about jumping to conclusions, because his temper, is like mine, and I can’t see his ego wanting to start over under a unknown name (recluse or not).
whoa. this is the first i’ve heard that sue and baron left. if they have, i am so unhappy. i have several of sue’s pianos as well as her CD. i have a metric butt ton of Baron’s furniture as well as his Droog house refab. Love their work and the times I’ve interacted with them both they have been nothing but courteous and professional. If they left I’m really sorry to see them go. If they are back, no matter under what guise, I am glad they are back. As far as illnesses go, I know Sue was pretty ill. I don’t know with what because she was pretty private about it.
Why is it that if certain people claim to leave SL due to health, economy, death or whatever reasons, then come back as alts that there is an all out pitchfork bitchfest yet when others do the exact same thing yet are more popular, it’s ok? Personally, I’m sick of hearing about people coming back as alts when they had made a big to do about leaving SL forevers.
Deception is deception and whether or not they are your enemy or your best friend, it’s still wrong and these people should NOT be supported!!!
at LEAST if it is them the DID take their stuff out of sl as they said, the new sims have ALL NEW STUFF, unlike others who ‘leave” or do the ‘gone forever” stuff, then sell it again.
if they have ‘started over’ with NEW stuff due to reasons NO ONE KNOWS… why assume the worst? i mean really?
i guess we can all speculate and choose to think what we want.
and yes, sue was VERY private about it, if she wanted SLympathy or money believe me, with her amazing reputation she could get it in a heart beat. this woman is a class act and i’d just be very very slow to assume anything based on a “bitter” secret. Baron inspired MORE ppl, who will say so, with his work, and if they wanna ‘play’ in SL, let them.
we just don’t know all the facts.
when people’s plans change, as they often do IT DOES NOT MEAN DECEPTION.
Grace Fallen said it with this “in this case, their stories had the effect, intentional or not, of manipulating buyer sentiment and also raising the value of their existing goods, which they put on sale for a predetermined amount of time.”
Also, their old items are still up for sale, I was just there yesterday afternoon.
I do enjoy their work, very much. I do not enjoy the deceptions.
Callie, Anyone who knows Sue and has had the privilege to call her a friend would not believe this either, but it is the unfortunate reality that evidence points to her and to Baron.
My only suggestion is to look at the Privacy policy pages that someone listed above, go to the sim, read the release notes they have sent out from their group. Look at the product and see how the scripts function.
I wish I did not believe, but I do. Right down to how the Immortalis’ are graciously allowing Baron and Sue to keep their stores on the The Nameless sim until they take their things off the market. Too many coincidences.
Sorry Callie but the whole “limited time offer” on the stuff is perceived as a deception whether they or you felt it was or not. They manipulated buyer sentiment and interest. But did they actually lie? Probably not from a purely technical perspective. The accounts are leaving and the product line is ended.
Since there is no government in Second Life the only court is the court of public opinion. One must be careful with this court since there are so many power account controlled kangaroo courts run in large groups and various forums.
My opinion is the torches Baron made are fantastic. They really add medieval ambiance to a build like no other I have seen. But sadly they cost over 500 ktris per frame plus 0.050 milliseconds per torch. Too costly viewer performance wise to the sort of clientele Linden Lab is trying to attract (under powered computers). I’ll find a way to use them though. They are too good to let rot in inventory risking mysterious disappearance.
Clearly I have seen evil with people feigning departure. Including cases of dumping valuable and very competitive content on the market full permissions in a clear effort to irrevocably damage a market they were unable to control and manipulate which led to their dramatic departure. Baron and Sue are *not* in this category. As far as I know they have always been on the high side supporting charities and the arts.
I can see how one can get to a point where there is really no further you can take a business. The only solution is new identities. I know of several designers that operate multiple product lines simultaneously because they wanted to do content that did not fit style wise or price strata wise with one or another line.
I think that new web site is nicely done. I would build mine if it didn’t literally make me sick to face web page programming after working so hard to get away from that business.
@ Callie who said “when people’s plans change, as they often do IT DOES NOT MEAN DECEPTION.”
Oh FFS, their plans did not change, their plan is right on schedule since they had planned this before they supposedly left SL and sent out their boohoo we are leaving SL notice. While for who knows how long they have been working on new sims and products. So your little statement, no matter how much you want to believe it, is wrong. I feel the fool for going out and buying things thinking I was helping people who had money and health issues irl and couldn’t be on SL any longer. That was Obviously not the case here as their website, sims, and alts rez dates show the truth.
I have always been about supporting content creators in SL, but now I add one more to the list of places I refuse to buy from and will make sure my friends and acquaintances are informed of what is going on so that they do not make the mistake of supporting people such as these. It really saddens me because I really respected them and the wonderful products they made.
If they needed a change of pace, then change the pace, don’t intentionally set out to deceive people by telling them you cannot afford to be on SL any longer and don’t really have the time like you used to and then go and do what they really were going to do. It goes to show that you really don’t know people they way you think you do.
i am not saying it’s NOT them, i am just saying, we dont KNOW if something changed in their personal lives that enabled them to rethink their desicion and stay and maybe do a bit under new avatars.
to think they intentionally deceived is very uncharacteristic of sue. i don’t know baron well, but i know sue well, a LONG history spanning 7 years. she has never been anything but a woman of integrity, VERY private so i’d NOT expect her to come on and say,
(speculation) oh well i got a new job in RL, so i’m gonna piddle still in SL so we’re not gone, etc.. or whatever. i can see her just quietly working and probably being very happy she could stay in sl, and im sure NOT wanting to answer a bazillion questions if she did return as “sue”.
all im saying is WHY think it was this big planned out thing?
why assume the worst? WE DO NOT KNOW THE DETAILS.
if one chooses to believe the WORST that’s their choice, i just choose in my life NOT to do that since I DO NOT KNOW!
and i’d assert, no one else knows either.
respectfully,
caLLie
Umm ok…aka #7.
Why the fuck is it so easy for people (like you) to go off the deep end, and ASSume that they know wtf is going on, and it is horrible and criminal and one big damned plot? Is there proof? Or are you spouting “facts” out of your ass?
Now if there is some proof, I will be disappointed over the inconvenience of rushing to beat a timeline. That’s it! Other than that, Baron’s art is something I wanted to collect anyway for sentimental reasons. If I could steal Callie’s staircase, where my avatar was proposed to when it was still on Intemp-whatever Nox, I would in a heartbeat. Heh.
speaking of that staircase, sue built it when she was ill, it was her first build ever. she instead of tearing down her ‘high prim build’ auctioned off parts that went ALL TO CHARITY, it was a fabulous night, i wanted the grand chandelier but i didn’t have enough money. it went for like 200K.
i got the staircase by accident sorta then was like OMG, i have to build a store around it. sue helped me place it but then got VERY ill and it’s STILL in her name. i told her, ‘you take care of you, i’m not worried’ we both need to be on when she puts it out for sale at 0L and we’ve just not been able to.
dusky feel free to come by anytime and use it for photos or whatever
I was there at the auction…I had no idea that she was sick then. Thanks for the offer.
just for the record… this was the FORMAL annoucement on sue’s blog.
it doesn’t say “we are both leaving SL due to being ill” at #7 says…..
Spring is a time of new beginnings, and this year mine starts with an ending that sees me growing in new directions, some of them a little sad, but all heading to a healthier place. I’ve been a business person in the Second Life online community for more than 4 years now, and am finding it’s time to grow in new ways.
Almost everyone is touched somehow by the realities of the economic collapse that has sent things snowballing last fall. Days before Christmas my first life partner was terminated along with 1/3 of the other people in his company because of devastating effects of the economy. This month I was also told my job was ending for the same reasons. It’s been devastating to lose both of our household incomes, and at a time when I’ve been ill and finding it increasingly difficult to work in Second Life as well.
My Second Life partner of the last 3 1/2 years, Baron Grayson, and I have been moving into other artistic projects since Christmas of this year. This is where our efforts will be focused, and we will be winding down our businesses in Second Life. As we do this we have been combining our existing shops onto one single SIM, sharing Baron’s “The Nameless Isle” SIM. This weekend I began moving my business over as we consolidate, so it will be a little chaotic for the next week.
Neither Baron nor I have been inworld much the past few months, and our time here will be reduced further still as we concentrate on our new business projects. I will be inworld for a short time each day from Monday to Friday to handle customer service for both of our businesses, and am commited to seeing key product updates released and ensuring that the transition happens as smoothly as possible. This service will be handled under a new avatar account, named: “RelicAndSerendipity Unplugged”
I will update my profile to include the new location of my shop as soon as it’s set up, and I will send along a note to the group at that time.
just for thought, could it be that they did “wind down relic and all the other businesses, get RL jobs, and are doing a ‘side project’ in SL NOT FULL time, with a few things? i mean i dont know but perhaps since they were so popular they wanted to just do something more low key? idk…
i won’t say much more, it’s just hard to see a friend torn apart when people don’t know all the details. (myself included) but i know we all see thru our own lenses.
best to you all.
oh my words start back at “just for thought” sorry…
Callie: “i am not saying it’s NOT them, i am just saying, we dont KNOW if something changed in their personal lives that enabled them to rethink their desicion and stay and maybe do a bit under new avatars.”
Callie, you seemed to have overlooked the information I posted about the simultaneous timelines. Their decision to shift into new avatars and sims was done prior to their April 9th announcement. There is no refuting that. However, you are right that, there may be reasons for them doing this that we aren’t aware of. Only they will be able to answer that though.
And for those who aren’t grasping why what they did was immoral, perhaps a more stark example will demonstrate…. By this time we’re all aware of Michael Jackson’s untimely death last week. his death had a profound effect on record sales. quoting from BBC News:
“Jackson’s record sales increased dramatically in the hours and days following his death, eighty-fold according to HMV. Bill Carr, Amazon’s vice president for music and video, said the website sold out of all Jackson’s CDs, and those of the Jackson 5, within minutes of the news breaking. The demand placed enormous pressure on CD manufacturing plants. Sales of his music topped the two leading online music sellers, iTunes and Amazon.com, taking over most of the top twenty spots. ”
Whether intentional or not, Baron and Sue’s deceit about their demise had an effect on buyer behavior and perception of value with regards to their remaining merchandise, the same as Micheal Jackson’s death had on his albums, albeit on a much smaller scale of course.
Now.. what would happen if suddenly we learned Jackson’s death was faked?
both Baron and Sue’s fatal announcements were drawn out, dramatic, self-indulgent, and anything but private. when they could have simply said “we’ve chosen to start over, with new sims and new avatars”, they chose instead to tell fables. they need now to set this record straight (no pun intended).
2 different websites with the same info, alts made prior to “we’re leaving SL” 2 new sims done who knows when. Yeah, that’s not suspicious at all. The fact is, I cannot trust people like this who send out a heartfelt notecard about rl difficulties and no longer being able to be in SL, making me feel bad for them and buying things from them to help out, then finding out they never left and without a statement about why they didn’t leave. It’s way past April Fools Day. Sounds fishy to me and a lot of other people. I can’t blame you for how you feel as I wouldn’t want to think a friend would do this deception either, but it has happened before with others. It seems people are very hurt by this, hence the secret posted.
As for anything ever going to charity, do you know for a fact that it did? Have you seen receipts? If not, it’s situations like this that make me wonder and I’m tired of feeling like I can’t trust anyone in SL. This is why I choose to donate irl and not in SL.
You know.. #7 is factual – Facts given in comments – looking at the scripts/creation dates – the timeline is there. Grace Fallen pointed out in a very blunt way – but sometimes, that is what it takes for people to “get it”
Callie – I have a great deal of respect for you – and only wish I could wear the same rose colored glasses as you do.
Sue DID claim to be sick in her post about closing her store/sims, posting:
“This month I was also told my job was ending for the same reasons. It’s been devastating to lose both of our household incomes, and at a time when I’ve been ill and finding it increasingly difficult to work in Second Life as well.”
Yet to later post: “Spring is a time of new beginnings, and this year mine starts with an ending that sees me growing in new directions, some of them a little sad, but all heading to a healthier place. I’ve been a business person in the Second Life online community for more than 4 years now, and am finding it’s time to grow in new ways”
I am not claiming to know all the facts, just the facts I have personally seen. Scripts created in the same manner, created items – all making it pretty clear to me, that this is Sue and Baron – the websites .. the builds – even down to the “bed & breakfast” and the terraforming/textures – ALL seen on previously owned sims by the duo.
If this were to happen in reallife – people are arrested and fined. The net leaves a huge loophole allowing for these exact things – as there is no governing body. the net is a virtual free play ground for people who choose to look at it differently.
RL feelings, emotions, actions, accountability.. all come into play..people are hurt – people were concerned – now the anger, frustration, disgust and disappointment set in.
Just my L$ worth..
J
I don’t think they would have taken any money they raised for charity. While this situation in particular feels fishy and dishonest, I do not think they would ever mislead people on that score.
I don’t think they need to come forward and spill it to us either. If they have gone this far, it is likely because they were seeking an escape from who they were for whatever reason. Why else would they abandon the reputation they have and the years of work they have put into those reputations?
What most people are upset about is that these are people we cared about. Some of us may have been friends with them at one point or another. I would not go so far as to say that what they have done is criminal.
Several people have pointed out this thread to us. We have posted notes to our groups and on our blogs about our leaving, and our reasons why. While neither of us has any intention of getting caught up in blog drama, some very specific allegations have been made here suggesting we have somehow attempted to defraud people. This is upsetting for a host of reasons, and we are choosing to address these issues directly. We will not post further after this, as we have shared publicly our reasons for leaving and our plans for moving on.
1) Fraud It’s been suggested that we said that we would be be leaving and then chose not to in order to milk profits. This could not be more wrong. We are leaving. We did tell people how and when. In Baron’s note to our joint group he said very specifically that we would be winding things down in two parts: 1) we would be leaving our products in tact on The Nameless Isle SIM until around the end of June, to give us time to move some things over to the XStreet web site, and 2) by the end of December that we would be taking that stuff down too. This was not to inflate values. In fact, we have both significantly reduced the prices on on our products. As for leaving things put for a time, we also said why we were doing this. Both of us have had our family incomes all but wiped out, meaning we have had a lot of difficult choices to make. Those choices included not carrying on these inworld businesses because we needed to pursue something that better kept the roof over our heads. We cannot afford to simply kill off that one remaining source of income that we had, which is why we said that we would wind things down slowly, instead of just completely pulling the plug. As for planning to remove our products completely, we still plan on doing this as neither of us is inworld to support them, and neither of us wants to leave legacy items laying around like a shrine.
2) Illness and the Economy Baron never said he was leaving due to illness. I (Sue) did step back for a long time because of personal illness, which was posted in my personal blog and sent out in notes to my own group. We both acknowledged that the crash of the economy had played a huge role in our decision to leave, and both posted this in notes to our groups. This was also posted on the http://baronandsue.com web site.
3) Charity I (Sue) chose Kiva as the means for investing charitable funding in order to enure it was transparent. Fund invested are publicly shown here: http://www.kiva.org/lender/suestonebender There have been various private donations made from the sale of assets and auctions as well.
My (Sue’s) Ad Lucem and Intemptesta Nox SIMs were transferred last spring to two different owners. Nox became a private residence and art sim for a couple whose names we will not disclose. Ad Lucem was developed by Alchemy and Immortalis Cyannis, who will also have ownership of Baron’s The Nameless Isle SIM as planned by the end of the summer. The transfer of those SIMs also included a number of assets, including textures, scripts, web collateral and structures. Our original business plans are not wavering, but for the decision to not list on Xstreet. It’s easier to simply leave it as it is inworld and delete the entire retail presence after Christmas as originally planned.
Sue Stonebender.
4) Note from Baron:
I have to sit back and shake my head at all of this drama. My reasons for leaving are 3 things specifically. 1) The slow economy. I realised my business plan at Relic could not support a family. It was a failure in the way it was set up. What doesn’t work, has to end. 2) There was too much drama in the social side of things. I no longer had time for it, having to ramp up work and keep strict work hours. 3) The drama surrounding Sue’s Illness. We’re both sick of people sticking their nose in our business when we’re handling it as best we can. Try working in SL with everyone imperiously demanding your time because everyone thinks they have a god given right to dish out advice on what one should do when sick, in the middle of your work day. If you have never been sick before, you would know the worst thing you could do would be to slow down on profits at work. How does one strengthen an income in a down economy. You look at what you’re good at, and you look at what is keeping you from success and you trim and cut mercilessly. Her illness became fodder for gossip. What did she have, how was she getting it treated..on and on and on. I’m sitting on the side lines simply thinking..if only these people would shut the fuck up, she could actually handle much better the days that are hard. The stress of their “helpfulness” made her worse medically.
So in I step and I say. Sue..let’s leave all of this shit behind. How can we do this gracefully? How can we preserve some of what we’ve created? How can we make a living and step away from all of these negative people.
You stick together. You stop chattering. You do things as gracefully as you can, and you get to work.
Baron Grayson.
Grace, they aren’t dead. I didn’t take announcement as fatal, more so postponed. But anywho -
OK, so..the paranoia, and assumptions are factual based on timing. Let’s say you are all correct. Let’s say that they chose to start over on SECOND LIFE.
Let this be a lesson to whomever wants to escape from the social bullshit and “fanbase” and the responsibilities that go along with maintaining your old avatar’s image. Don’t announce your departure, people will think you are lying and scheming to get their L$ anyway. Just pack your shit and leave, like the Runway couple – oh wait a minute you can’t just leave. You have to tell people ahead of time so there aren’t any surprises.
Also, if you leave, it is immoral to sell your old stuff associated with your old avatar before finalizing the departure. Oh well, if people like your content on SL, you are damned if you do, and damned if you don’t want to start over. Tsk. Tsk.
^ my above post was delayed……and the timeline “facts” can now be swept into the BS bin where they belong. Heh.
i think the distinction that is being missed by Baron/Sue (welcome back, btw) and some others is, the difference between *really* leaving SL, and simply starting over with new sims, new avatars, and new business plans. whether you like it or not, everyone assumed the 1st after your announcements – that is, that you (you meaning the individuals behind the computer screens, not just your avatars) were totally leaving SL. meaning, your creations, and their unique and individual style would be going with you, not to return. clearly, that wasn’t the case. the only thing that was leaving was your current avatars. i can accept that no malice was intended, but you failed to make the above distinction, and thus, 98.9% of us were duped. you really should have just been more forthright and said you were starting over, not leaving SL. you never left SL, you simply shifted gears. believe me, we are all glad you didn’t leave – you guys are amazing creators. but you didn’t go about this the right way. lesson learned i hope.
Grace, you seem to be reading what you want into this.
Thanks to those of you who stepped up on behalf of our integrity. To the rest, good luck. We’re done with the drama.
Sue.
THEY SAID THEY WOULD NOT BE LEAVING UNTIL DECEMBER!!! IT’S JUNE!!!! what is the deception??? hello??? look at your calendars!
Callie, ok, we get it. Now, you might want to wipe that brown stuff off your nose.
this isn’t even worthy of the title “drama” it’s more of the disposable same old shit of ‘SOAP OPERAS’ bad acting, much ado about nothing, same old scenarios, and addicting.
when REAL PEOPLE’S LIVES ARE INVOLVED think people. i’m sorry but i’m sick of this “drama” craze. if you wanna see a good drama go watch a great movie. at best the much ado and speculation that goes on in these non discussions is about as exciting as the worst “made for tv drama” that one remembers, yeah can’t think of one can you?
i just think of ALL the time wasted on this stuff, yes wasted, add it all up, my 20 minutes, yours, sue’s, et, al. add that up and there is a HELL OF A LOT OF TIME YOU WILL NEVER GET BACK OUT OF YOUR LIFE! ever.
even if you spend 10 minutes, YOU WILL NEVER GET THIS TIME BACK. is it really worth it? when you don’t even KNOW what you are talking about?
think of what you could do in 10 minutes:
1. clean a bathroom
2. call your mom
3. call an old friend that you’ve been saying you have NO time for and say hi.
4. call a sick person you know.
5. pay some bills
6. do that “to do” list you never have time for.
7. hug your kid, husband, friend, dog
8. clip your nails
9. go click some “free donation websites that help feed dying people”
10… add about a million other things.
i mean really, in the scheme of life is this all worth YOUR precious time?
you have amazing gifts NO ONE KNOWS about, hopes, dreams, talents, why waste that time that you could be sharing those, making yourself AND others happier?
ok well i’m now going to look at that list and do a few myself. yes, i too fall into soap operas masquerading as “drama”
Callie, thanks, but my bathroom is already clean, and i called my Mom on Mother’s Day. not all of us feel comfortable walking around with blinders on. i feel drama is unnecessary as well, but also think people need to take more responsibility for their actions here. the business world in most developed countries is governed by sets of ethics that for some reason, people seem to think doesn’t apply to doing business in SL. yet they are happy to withdraw real dollars every month from their Linden accounts. people, it can’t, shouldn’t, just be about what we can get away with here, just because it’s easier to.
Baron and Sue have now sent their blog post from here to the Relic/Serendipity groups. yet, there is still no mention of the fact that they are not leaving SL, and never did. only their old avatars are “leaving”. i wager every reader of that group, who hasn’t found this blog, still doesn’t get that important distinction.
the rain in spain falls
mainly on the the plain.
*wink*
caLLie
WOW just WOW
Let me get this shit straight on #7 – they sold their sims to two new avatars with scripts, textures, inventory that are doing the same thing? Sorry – uh, can anyone else see the BULLSHIT?
As “giving” as Baron and Sue were, giving away intellectual content they created? C’mon – the items were transferred, yes.. most likely to their alts – who cares? WHY? Well the deception – they claimed to be leaving – “allowing things to be sold until x” who fucking cares? oh wait.. that is pure greed – it’s the BUY OUR SHIT WHILE WE REMAKE OTHER SHIT TO BUY!!!
What they did, was drive the demand for their items, in reallife, it’s called “theft by deception” – so uh.. yeah people that is CRIMINAL.
Not sure how people cannot see the facts as they are quite apparent, both inworld, and via their websites.
… and yeah.. Fallen Grace said it best, Callis the brown on your nose, is so not attractive.
Baron and I said our piece, and were content to leave it at that, but there is one thing I will not tolerate, and that is the character assassination being done in here on Callie Cline.
This woman has known me in first life for a very long time. She should neither have to defend herself for that reason, or be subjected to the kind of petty bullshit that a small but vicious handful of self-righteous jackals think they have some sort of moral imperative to dish out. She has worked damned hard to build her business and her brand, and if anyone knows the harm done by this kind of poisonous tripe, she does. The fact that she has been made to feel like she needs to apologizing for having the guts to stand up to a handful of bullies is sickening.
This thread is full of malicious, slanderous tripe. If you want to keep bantering around this crap about criminal issues, perhaps you should look no further than your own postings here.
I’m not sure what’s harder to swallow right now: watching Callie being dragged through the mud because she had the balls to stand up and speak out against this bullshit, or those of you who have been utter hypocrites in this thread after what Baron and I did for you personally (and you know exactly who you are, and what I’m talking about) having the audacity to say “it’s about time” and “what they are doing is so wrong”.
And people wonder why we are leaving SL.
WHO we sell our SIMs and tools to is NO ONE’S DAMNED BUSINESS but our own. We have built businesses over the last 5-6 years and worked damned hard to do that. Watching this disgusting field day evolve in this thread doesn’t just make us glad we chose to leave, it makes us damned bitter. You’re only as good as the last favour you did for someone, right?
There is only one final note worth going out on, and that is acknowledging not the pissy handful of sanctimonious arses who have been pounding the table in this thread, but rather the number of people who have been kind and supportive in our leaving, without demanding some sort of three page essay on why, or feeling some assinine level of entitlement for which they have none.
For every arse in SL, there are 1,000 more people who are genuine class acts. Those are the people we will remember.
Sue Stonebender.
Seems a nerve was hit there Sue.
Hate to inform you, the internet does not field for theives or liars, which is a pity.
And while you’re so quick to spread your sanctimonious tripe..uh your donation site, NO WHERE does it list the amounts you’ve “GIVEN” everything on that site is PAID BACK.
Call it quits, save some face, you’re a liar and a thief.
The nerve hit is the continued character assassinations.
50 some odd people funded through the Giving Tree. 100 people invested in. I never once took a dime back out of that fund. Every penny reinvested and a hell of a lot more beyond that out of my personal pocket.
As for your closing remark, that is slander, and that is against the law.
well sue… dont get bitter, it’s so not worth it
and.. i still say…
‘the rain in spain
falls mainly on the the plain’
the answer to all this is in that simple well known sentence.
Slander? When you’ve caught your own self up in the copious amounts of horseshit? Sorry?! Arrest me.. oh no, wait, it’s not RL, so it’s okay – right, Sue?
Your site lists you a “lender” .. all monies are repaid – at ANY time, said “lender” can withdraw their monies and pull out – HELLO?
Your “giving tree” may have very well helped people, who REALLY KNOWS?!
Relay for Life, LL approved charities, who was sanctioning you? No one, everyone just took your word for it, and we can see how far that got people.
“The nerve hit is the continued character assassinations” Pity that out of all this mess, that is what you’re most upset about. Not an apology for the lies and deceit. Not once have you admitted to, not that I would expect you to be that honest, and forthcoming as to soil the “Sue Stonebender” name to admit to these things.
this discussion is so so lame, is it december 2009? NO… is that when they said they’d wind down by? yes,
so WHY are people still saying the same thing?
you didn’t leave you said you would, YES, bye DEC 2009!!!!
hello!!!!! what a joke, there is nothing for them to defend! go read the stuff they wrote, secret #7 is a fabricated lie.
(btw sue, if you read this, you can email the owners of this blog to remove it, they will)
Sue Stonebender:
“And people wonder why we are leaving SL.”
but Sue, you’re not leaving SL. you and Baron are just using different avatars now, and different sims, but still creating and still selling, just as you did. and you have been since April, without any break at all after your closing announcements. the problem is, your entire former customer base was led to believe differently. until you let them know that you have simply re-branded under a different name, using different avatars, rather than really leaving SL, there’s deceipt involved, plain and simple. it’s called disclosure, and it’s about honesty. why is that such a problem?
*draws Callie a map*
You seem to be missing the point – who cares if they are still here? No one.. or their things. It’s the LIES, and the crap they put the blogs, group notices.
The “Hurry and buy now, before it’s gone” scenerio.
The blame of illness Sue herself repeated here, and economy.
What don’t YOU get? Are you that daft?
I could care less if they left, or stayed. It was the dramatic, claiming to leave or “wind down” they told; to be found to out as having a website with the EXACT information, the same blurbs, Sue herself, even admitted they /coughs sold the sims, textures and scripts as well as inventory.
So in case you don’t get that part, and most likey you will not. That is on you.
Sue & Baron–
Please don’t read this garbage. You both added ,and still add beauty to Second Life.
Callie, you are a great friend to have.
Whether Alchemy Immortalis is a continuing project of Baron or Sue or not, I don’t care. Have you looked at how beautiful the jewelery is, and how evocative is the Empress and Hierophant sim (especially with the foggy Windlight settings they provide)? It’d do everyone a lot of good to discuss the positive side of content creation rather than dwelling on the BS that draws nitwits who are here for the “lulz”.
Had a flag flying for Memorial day in SL. Have one flying now in preparation for the Fourth.
Am not decided on whether it is okay to wear clothes with a flag pattern. I think it is all in the intent. I think T shirts and jackets are okay and sometimes pants. Not undies or bikinis or stripper gear, though.
Some people wear things like that because they want to show their pride in their flag. But I don’t think it should be a towel, or undies. Nothing you lay on, step on or wear next to your bits. That isn’t respect.
The shouting and drama in # 8. Oy. Looks like whoever this catch of a guy is, he likes over-emotional women.
And more drama – Look when someone is feeling ill and stressed, as Baron wrote (and I don’t know those people, or anyone in these secrets, and I don’t know the story here) the last thing you want is people constantly IMing you, digging MORE into your real life concerns, etc.
One reason I keep real life totally out of SL is because this is how people usually react. If you tell them one thing, they think a line of questioning like an interrogation is perfectly acceptable. Pretty soon the little escape that SL *used to be* in order to take your mind off real life stresses, is just another stress in itself.
So, Grace, maybe look at what part their customers and friends played in all of this as well. Nothing is ever that one sided.
Also you mentioned disclosure. Are you aware of the irony there? Disclosure is not something anyone OWES you. In fact it is against CS to even ask – that includes whether or not someone is an alt, or any of the other facts you claim they owe everyone. Go read TOS and CS again and stop being so nosey.
If you like someone’s products buy them – if you don’t, don’t. But no one OWES you every detail of their lives. (First or Second)
Just one last quick thing. “The blame of illness” – sheeesh. Compassion challenged much?
Do people not realise that some illnesses improve and some wax and wane? Someone can be very ill for months, get a bit better, get worse, get better, and so on. Stop being so ignorant. And again, stop nosing into people’s lives where you have no business nosing around.
Ohbrother:
“(and I don’t know those people, or anyone in these secrets, and I don’t know the story here)”
maybe you should refrain from commenting about issues you aren’t familiar with, hmm?
- As far as I know, I never got any message from Baron & Sue saying “we’re sick / poor / whatever, help us”. It’s your own decision to buy (out of something you like call “compassion”).
- To return to the Michael Jackson analogy, I wouldn’t have been mad because I’ve bought his CD after the news of his death. (Otherwise I would be saying MJ were only good dead). I wouldn’t even have been mad for mourning and for caring because if I got mad then I couldn’t have cared that much. If you feel lied to, just stop believing in the future.
- The timeline is a loose evidence that can be interpreted whichever way you like. It’s like saying to the policeman that your alibi of watching TV last night is proven by your knowledge of the plot of the 8pm movie. Nope, not good enough. Claiming corruption and besmirching other people on such flimsy evidence? You’re making a fool of yourself.
- And lastly, none of it is your business. Try facebook. They have a policy of letting only real last names, maybe you could AR people there with fake names instead, you know, as a vicious hobby? I’m sure it’d be a greater success.
Callie – when an aggressive troll is involved it is never a discussion, just a cowardly attack, that will die out if you and Sue ignore it.
Ran – I agree.
I will point out that the products produced by Baron & Sue are about as physically real as SL Land (another dork piss target). If you find them offensive …. delete them. Anyone? No? You bought them because they are beautiful pieces of art, not as an “investment”. Unless of course, you are as delusional as you seem in this thread.
Reasoning with whiny, vitriolic piss-ants is like teaching a monkey to stop touching his tender bits in public. Not likely to succeed, yet, always worth a try.
Ask yourself this when your head stops spinning around, What did you give to Baron and Sue? What did they give to you? Still think they owe you anything?
thanks dusky!
im still bummed that no one got what this is really all about
“the rain in spain falls
mainly on the the plain”
that says it all.
(im me inworld if you wanna know why dusky)
btw ran i did go and i bought OMG, amazing
You can lead a horse to water, you cannot make it drink……
If it were so untrue, why would they just not come out and say it? It’s funny, in all the writting from Sue, she never claimed that the owners/creators were NOT Sue and Baron.
Why is the information on the alchemy site changed now? *Thank heavens for the screen captures and google archives*
Why is the SAME registrar information on BOTH domains? (And no, not the “hidden” information, the actual information. As well as the ip addresses are on the same host)
To the showing the difference of LENDING and DONATING?
Sorry people, I cannot make you come out of the clouds and see the light of the day. Call me a hater, jaded, whatever, what I am is realistic, and not some gullible oof that will let people snow me with their crap.
caLLie cLine:
I’m still bummed that no one got what this is really all about
“the rain in spain falls
mainly on the the plainâ€
maybe we just didn’t want to encourage the pseudo-intellectual attention whoring?
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”
Aldous Huxley
“No accurate thinker will judge another person by that which the other person’s enemies say about him.†Napoleon Hill
“When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities†David Hume
“He that judges without informing himself to the utmost that he is capable, cannot acquit himself of judging amiss†John Locke
“Facts do not ‘speak for themselves’, they are read in the light of theoryâ€
“The invalid assumption that correlation implies cause is probably among the two or three most serious and common errors of human reasoningâ€
Jay Gould
Lulz:
“If it were so untrue, why would they just not come out and say it?”
Why do they have to? What is your claim on them?
Lulz:
“Why is the information on the alchemy site changed now? *Thank heavens for the screen captures and google archives*
Why is the SAME registrar information on BOTH domains? (And no, not the “hidden†information, the actual information. As well as the ip addresses are on the same host)”
Looks like you have already done your homework Dick .. Tracy. Nice investment of your time. What are you after now? Your “AHA!!” moment?
About the whole Baron & Sue thing. Yeah, everyone is entitled to their privacy and health concerns should be none of anyone’s business and all that. Yup. If they want to disappear, so be it. They don’t owe the PUBLIC anything. And I do so hate gang mentality **** BUT***** if this deception is true, its a sad statement on what value they put on friendship. A lot of people felt – including myself – felt we were friends with them. Some friends were even business partners investing in their vision in one way or another (what happens to the sim Keith was building alongside Nameless?). We were concerned and worried when they announced they were leaving. To find out that they, in effect, created a new sim with new AVs and conveniently ended up buying the old sims and didn’t tell even people who thought they were friends — well, it’s personally disappointing and hurtful to those of us who honestly cared about them on a personal level.
I wouldn’t normally get involved in a public post like this, but of course, my emails and notes of conern were never returned and so if they’re reading this, they’ll at least get the message that some of us are very hurt by it all.
Ran Garrigus:
“Whether Alchemy Immortalis is a continuing project of Baron or Sue or not, I don’t care. Have you looked at how beautiful the jewelery is, and how evocative is the Empress and Hierophant sim”
maybe that’s all we can hope for. they make pretty things. we buy the pretty things, and try not to think about who made them. but until they come clean they’ve lost the right to manage auctions, charity drives, or anything else that requires a substantial amount of trust or integrity.
i’m sorry but, grace, i dont know you, i admire you passion about integrity, etc. i don’t agree with your conclusions but i do admire your passion.
and..
“they’ve lost the right to manage auctions, charity drives, or anything else that requires a substantial amount of trust or integrity.”
i don’t know how ANYONE can say they lost a right. the arrogance of that comment is so mind blowing. have they been tried? NO have they been found guilty? NO.
all we know is that they sold sims, assets, textures, scripts adn web collateral to the people who own the 2 new avies that some on this witch hunt are claiming to be sue and baron.
does that make the lose rights?
they have the right to privacy, and to do whatever the heck they want. i think their post clearly explained the criminal judgements hurled at them. if you think they are so guilty and should lose rights, why not go report them to LL so they can really lose rights. present your case, and go for it if you truly believe these are horrid people who are deceiving others do it, in good conscience shouldn’t you?
caLLie cLine:
“all we know is that they sold sims, assets, textures, scripts adn web collateral to the people who own the 2 new avies that some on this witch hunt are claiming to be sue and baron.”
claiming? lol. callie, you’ve had your mind made up since before you even started reading this thread. you’d not care if Sue robbed a bank or molested children, you’re going to blindly support her. that, i suppose, is admirable in its own way, but for those of us who prefer reason, logic, and objective conclusions, you’re a time waster.
I know sue, too, Callie. You say an awful lot of things that I know aren’t true and yet you believe them. I’m not surprised, she lies with the ease of honey down a snake’s throat. Let me ask you this: have you verified any of the things she’s told you? And if you really do know her, then you know there are many things she’s claimed and that these things can be proven either true or false.
Whether anyone else cares about their “re-invention” (and this is a term she often uses herself, as if that makes it okay) is not my concern. The big show about illnesses, lying about the economic reasons, and then returning as if people were gigantic bobble-head idiots? That takes some gigantic, pompous egos and stupidity. Treating people like morons and yanking with their emotions, as someone who is supposed to be so giving and loving? Not a chance in hell. You can’t “re-invent” yourself if you are always being your most genuine, loving self. But this is a person who got people to donate to a cause (Kiva) and took all the credit for herself, as per usual (account wasn’t in the GT name but her own).
I feel sorry for all of the players in this drama. I’d avoid her like the plague if I were you. She’ll eat you alive, like the others she has chewed up and shot out her rectum like they were nothing. You seem like a nice person Callie and I hope you come to your senses before you get hurt. And you will – all it takes is that one second when you realize she’s lied to you, and that day will come.
I’m still chuckling over the comment about slander and lies! And that they are still continuing with this farce even when confronted with it. I’m not surprised because it’s typical, but it did make me laugh
In truth I wish only the best for everyone. I don’t like sneakiness, and I don’t like hurt feelings. Maybe something good can come of this. Any ideas?
I want to make it CLEAR that I don’t believe that Sue or Baron ever kept any funds from their fundraising. I’m sure it was donated. But I’m also sure that the credit for the giving, at least on the surface, was all hers.
Serena:
“In truth I wish only the best for everyone. I don’t like sneakiness, and I don’t like hurt feelings. Maybe something good can come of this. Any ideas?”
i’d vote for just a simple confession and truthful explanation. everyone fucks up now and then. it can be understood and even forgiven. what won’t though, is the continued deception. starting a new business venture with this kind of precedent will haunt them until the end of days.
The only thing I don’t understand is that if you lose your RL job, why you can’t spend any time on SL anymore??
I lost my RL job in February due to the financial crisis (and have a child), but in the past months I have released more clothing on SL than I did when I was still working in RL.
If I’m very frugal, I can even live off SL. And my brand is a small peanut compared to the one of Baron and Sue.
I wonder if “Moron” from “sostupid@yep.com” who left a comment on Ran’s post about Alchemy Immortalis might be a commenter here. Hmm … maybe someone who just recently used one of those words in a post.
Or, tried to leave a comment, I should say. Moderated comments are very nice. And since I am nosy, its always fun to have an IP address to lookup.
Off to blog about some pretty jewellery.
one more note before I go in case those eyes are reading: only your friends would understand the significance of the crow created by Annubis that sits on Immortalis’s shoulder.
Dusk Jewel – You incorrectly stated that the textures used in my main shop on L’utopie are “Baron’s work”.
My shop was built by Devon Denzio –
The texturing of the shop is my work. All textures used were personally hand crafted by me, or highly edited versions of ‘Marlin Textures’, also edited by me.
None are Barons.
——————————————————–
I’ll save my personal comments for when I can say them directly to you.
In this forum, and to you, Baron, I say this…
We weren’t acquaintances – we were close friends.
We deserve better.
There is something delicious about going through the comments days after SLecret has been posted.
But much like a McDonald’s Happy Meal, it may satisfy for the moment, but is strangely unfilling.
i’ll say one last thing, if i believed EVERY “fact” i have heard in SL about everyone, i’d have NO friends and pretty much EVERYONE i know has been accused by someone of being a thief, liar, deceiver, man, woman, kid, i mean you name it, someone is saying it about them.
i personally made a choice to judge people on how they treat me and what i see myself NOT what others say, speculate or “prove”. if i did, i’d not have ONE friend.
even people in this post i am friends with and are friends with me who have i have heard gossip about and visa versa.
that’s how i choose to live, it has pissed off some friends when i don’t “side” with them, but if i don’t have all the facts, then i don’t do that.
don’t mistake that for being gullible or naive i usually have a very good radar for BS, and still can be cordial and even do business with people i’m not so sure about, after all, one is never quite sure are they? even our own motives are mixed up at best if we really examine them, how could we expect perfect and purity from others when it’s not in ourselves?
oh p.s. i never have ALL the facts, i just meant… well u know what i mean.
“For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?”
Mark 8:36
Sky – My bad, it was a simple mistake, just like when people often fuck up my name (there is a Dusk Jewell, btw).
Since you used Baron’s avatar in your ad, and had Sue on your property ban list, and the *ground textures* looked similar to his, I thought — oh well who cares. I wasn’t trying to drag you into this, welcome to the party anyways.
From Grace –
“maybe you should refrain from commenting about issues you aren’t familiar with, hmm?”
Maybe you should post here instead:
http://www.passiveaggressivenotes.com
What do you think THIS website is? Inbred incrowd injoke secrets and comments, or anonymous secrets and comments?
Oh and Grace – unless you live in their spare room, YOU don’t know the “issues” either.
Ohbrother:
“Oh and Grace – unless you live in their spare room, YOU don’t know the “issues†either.”
and the earth might really be flat, becuase i’ve not personally seen it from outer space, yes, i know.
I’ve been away visiting family and only found this post today. I usually loathe the drama in this blog but absolutely couldn’t let this one go without comment.
Sue has been an excellent friend to me for the nearly four years I’ve been in SL now. She has supported me through many bad times with grace and panache, even putting together a fundraiser for my benefit when things were especially dark. I got to spend christmas with my real life husband after months on different continents because she (and our friends) cared enough to make it happen for us. That is a real, tangible kindness I will never forget as long as I live.
Any time I needed advice about charities or great organizations to support, Sue had a list of exceptionally good ones – because it is something she cares about in an exceptional manner.
The Giving Tree money went to Kiva, earmarked for the Giving Tree group there. (there is a link to the group page here: http://www.kiva.org/team/givingtree) There have been about 100 loans made in the name of that group – half of which were combined loans from avatars buying leaves off the tree, and half of which were directly and entirely from me personally. (I’m the Amiee in IL that shows up on the members page.)
It’s pretty safe to say I wouldn’t have put $1250 bucks to a cause with someone if I didn’t feel they had a fabulous character.
As far as Baron, he went out of his way to mentor a group of us on a community site for most of last year, teaching us tricks for making textures, places to find tutorials and tips about building sims. He was always forthcoming with his knowledge and there are a handful of us who are much better builders for the wisdom he imparted. After so much time learning alongside him this year, I myself made a rug that I felt was so similar to his style I would feel weird selling it. He’s a great teacher, haha.
I would not find it to be a stretch to find that he inspired someone else enough to create in his style, and I know of at least two other sims that have his landscape textures because he shared them with the owners.
My life has been richer and more beautiful because I met Baron and Sue, and if they did happen to return to a new sim to continue creating in some small way, I would merely be grateful for their health and presence.
Just had this link passed to me. http://alchemyimmortalis.com/calendar.html
7. is making me go O.o if it’s referring to who I think it’s referring to.
P2
After reading the comments, I’m appalled at the attacks on the both of them.
P2