Content theft is rife in SecondLife, as most of you know. Botters ripping work and either distributing it freely or setting up shop and selling the items to unsuspecting residents. This second type is what I want to talk about, because content theft does not just impact on the original creator, but the customers that hand over their lindens in good faith and risk having that item removed from their inventory by LL.  There are many ways to educate yourself about the possibility of buying botted goods, although these methods (forums/plurk/twitter/blogs) only reach a very small % of SecondLife residents.
I first learned about rippers about 6 months after I joined SecondLife, when I discovered the fashion feeds, and I was surprised, although it makes sense, where there is profit, there are people who will want some of that action. I remember the first time I saw stolen content, someone passed me a folder which contained ETD hair, I knew it was ETD because I owned the originals, so I sent the folder off the creator and deleted it. Content creators vary in their profits, some make a lot of money, others barely make enough to cover their costs if at all. These designers are a cottage industry, with a real face behind theft, as it affects them personally. By reading their words about how theft has affected them really had impact with me, so whenever I came across ripped content while mooching about the grid or shopping I would pass it to them.
There are 2 main schools of thought regarding how to deal with theft, one is to keep it quiet, let the designer deal with it and the other one is to name and shame publicly.  I’m sure both have merits but for me, by making it public, consumers are aware because for the most part, consumers are ignored, and how can a ‘buyer beware’ when they are left completely in the dark? How do you think an resident would feel if they have saved up their lindens to buy a skin in good faith only to find it removed one day? Of course, we all know that the designer is the only person who can file a DCMA, if they want to. There are people who abuse the AR/DCMA process, accusing new designers of theft and filing against them when they have done nothing wrong, either because they used the same sources or just to plant a seed of doubt against them, ruining their reputation before they have even started. However these are in the minority and as in any system, there are always those who will abuse it for their own gain.
There are some designers who have left SL completely and have let their creations go free, and others who then resell those, and although they are technically not doing anything wrong, it’s still shady to claim others work as your own. What you are dealing with is not always a legal issue, but a moral or a Linden one. If you are wandering around a store and spot a ripped hair do you contact them? do you walk away as it’s none of your business? If it’s cheaper than the original do you buy it? What do you think are your responsibilities are, if any at all?
Maybe I am being naive but I like to think of SL as a community, a messed up, disjointed and bizarre community, but still, I would like to hope that the majority would like to stop content thieves, let creators continue to create and pay their tier.
Oh, and for the record. I don’t believe in rumour, I don’t accept hearsay, I have to see theft to believe it.
So what are you solutions? suggestions? thoughts? Do you think that we should consider consumers in the equation?
First off I want to say I appreciate your opinion and I know it comes from a deep concern and want to help. As far as my own goes, I have a serious problem with the “name and shame” school of thought for a few reasons. One it fosters a general environment of fear, mistrust and overall doom. Secondly because the creator may not want anyone to know they are being ripped. And of course, something you haven’t touched on though you came close…MISTAKES. Being in designer support groups and reading blogs I have seen many many mistakes when people cry out copier or content theft. Something that could have been easily resolved privately and with adult-like discretion between the actual people involved is splashed nastily all over the feeds for “blog hits”, popularity, personal vendetta or just plain ignorance or meanness not always out of caring concern. And who suffers in this Whistleblower society that is developing? The copiers certainly not. They pass their stolen merchandise on to another alt and keep going under another name in another skybox somewhere. They don’t care about their reputation or place in the community. It’s the ones falsely accused. Someone that bought a template off Xstreet thinking it was a builders tool and ends up having their business and name trashed because someone who thought they were doing the right thing decided to assume. Someone who uses the same artistic source as another designer gets a character assasination on the feeds and in plurk. and And yes the original creator who after mountains of drama and negative exposure, lost sales due to public advertising of cheap or free knockoffs, wasted hours dealing with it. possibly being unable to submit a DMCA and instigate a takedown because the copier was warned and who more than likely will be hit again because word gets around, yes even to copybotters.
I know you are concerned about the public purchasing stolen goods but in my opinion it is much more effective to proactively and positively educate about content theft in general, let your customers know it exists and what it can do, how it effects you and your friends, share experiences to build a better customer/client relationships and support each other when we need it. Write to the Lindens, attend office hours and give them your concerns. It is so easy to, if you have a worry about someone’s original product or copyright contact them and ask what their wishes are. Pass the information along and let them handle it. To speak on their behalf without their express permission, you are taking it upon yourself to attempt to enforce their copyright which IS actually a federal crime called Fraud.
If what you want to be is a whistleblower/witch hunter whatever, then go for it but I will never support or encourage public posting of names and businesses for attack. It is too easy to make mistakes and to use for personal reasons. It creates an atmosphere of suspicion and fear for EVERYONE and In my experience it doesn’t help the ripped designer one bit. It might feel good briefly to out someone you think has done a bad thing but I don’t think outsiders should be the judge of that. There IS grey area in copyright law, there is compromise and yes there are times when you have to come down hard, but that in my opinion is not up to every blogger in SL, some with questionable motives and/or without all the facts.
Anyways didn’t mean to write a novel, those are just my thoughts. My opinions no matter how some wish to interpret them DO NOT mean I support content theft and/or copyright violation in any way. I just see us going down a path that frightens me as a designer, a consumer and a friend to many who have been violated by theft.
Ivey; I’m not quite sure where exactly you’re trying to go with that diatribe. We already know: Content theft is bad.
The amount of content theft issues that HAVEN’T been published at SCD could fill up a Gmail inbox. SCD writers know the score and know when to solve an issue quietly. You won’t find much of anything published here that wasn’t spurred by an email, inquiries, and plenty of evidence from the victimized party.
I understand your desire to portray certain parties and public areas as the big bad wolf, but the stats don’t lie: many people, consumers and content creators, have built up a good trust with SCD and respect the site and the site’s staff.
I do, however, agree with you about the speaking with the Lindens. Were you at the Linden brown bag meetings? I must have missed you. Anyway, I don’t think any SL resident means to support content theft but it’s just so damn tempting to recreate that McQueen dress we saw… Gee, we wish we were so creative, and we can’t have it in real life so why not make it in Second Life? Have ourselves a quick buck at the expense and creativity of McQueen.
That’s all fun and dandy, but at the end of the day, where’s the integrity? Why should people respect the art of a content creator that doesn’t even respect their own abilities?
The sooner you realize that you and I are fighting the same fight, the better.
Tenshi,
I know as one of your minions I am required by contract to agree with you at all times, but no.
I disagree. You and Ivey are not fighting the same fight. I insist you retract this false statement.
You and your peers within AV are working hard to support original content and creators, and to promote those people.
Ivey would just like people to not rip her off. She is perfectly comfortable doing the ripping – the McQueen dress being a good example. I would love to see Ivey explain that.
Ivey?
That you wait until the opportunity of rebuttal to make an accusation like that public is pretty telling. I’d expect more from you, Lauren.
I’ll gladly respond to “both” of you re: the Alexander McQueen inspired dress that I made (which btw I said in the description it was). It is not as you would like to imply a copy of the dress, it has a completely different texture and skirt style. The only similarity being the color and that it is off shoulder with a poof. The rest of your personal stab which I did my best to avoid in my original comment, I have no need to respond to. The person that was defended on your blog recently for having a Marilyn Monroe style dress, created originally by Bill Travilla btw, does that for me just fine. Or perhaps using a celebrities name without permission to sell your product is better or has more integrity?
http://i46.tinypic.com/o9lhft.jpg We know where you’re coming from and we all know how selective your attacks are. I thought perhaps I could offer my honest opinion about the subject without being jumped but I see thats not the case on SCD. I wont make that mistake again. We are not fighting the same fight. Your desire to bring down designers you don’t like or don’t agree with you for YOUR fun and profit is not at all what I am about.
“I thought perhaps I could offer my honest opinion about the subject without being jumped but I see thats not the case on SCD.”
Absolutely agree. This is getting ridiculous and it’s of NO HELP WHATSOEVER. Aren’t there more constructive actions and ATTITUDES we could be adopting?
Why can’t we all just get along? No one here agrees it’s ok to infringe on another’s copyrights.
Also I am interested in everyones opinion on this topic and appreciate it when all sides come out and speak.
Lastly, I think the best route is to inform the original copyright holder and let them make the decision to out things or not. SCD has in the past outed when someone has requested them to or asked them too. I am afraid in some cases this is a shoot the messenger.
HOWEVER, I do not agree with anything that involves just calling out names and posting pictures when the parties involved aren’t even contacted.
The fact of the matter is the infringement going on right now between users and SL content creators isn’t going to go away. That just can’t be possible, from a technological standpoint, unless LL does go with the Gold creators crap where you have to jump through hoops to be a content creator and prove your worth or whatever they plan to do. The key that has been said above is education and a pro-active approach on making sure users are aware that copyright does exist and should be respected in SL. (And really ANYWHERE!)
Infringement between an SL resident and real world company (I hesitate to use that term so maybe brick and mortar?) should be handled similarly. Contact the original copyright holder and let them sort it out. Educate new users that it’s not really ok to use hello kitty (example! I have no idea what Sanrio’s policy is) but explain that it is ok to use the coke trademarks (this is true, it is). But it all boils down to community awareness.
Fighting eachother only makes us look bad.
There’s my 10L (which in this economy is worth about 2L). I’m out. <3s.
Oh, Ivey. Aren’t you getting tired yet? You’ve been on the same tangent for three weeks now.
<<–rl statistician…lmao show me the raw "data"
I take pics of the item I think is copybotted, include the maker, store I found it in and LM, then pass it on to the creator who I think is being ripped off and let them handle it. So far, they seemed to appreciate the way I handled it. Also in the notecard is a disclaimer that I don’t know nearly as much about SLFashion as others so it’s possible I made a mistake and apologize if I inconvenienced them.
The majority of the time thats exactly what i do, take a snap, put it in a notecard with a LM and pass it onto the creator. Most of the time you get an acknowledgement from the designer.
In most instances the botter is a throwaway alt, and naming them is pointless, however there has been some times when the botter is more blatent, and has a busy store, where lots of residents unwittingly hand a thief money.
There are merits to keeping it quiet, as I said, however IMO the majority of the time its a big F.U. to consumers, and although losing 1 customer is no big deal, for them there are plenty of other designers to patronise and you can never get that goodwill back.
It’s also very difficult to get a good reputation back if someone is falsely accused. Some people will always have that in their minds, even if retractions and apologies are made. That can destroy a business as well.
of course, and false accusations and filing out of spite should be condemned, i only accept proof
photos, chatlogs, inspecting, speaking to the original designer and the botter
Difficult but not impossible
My feeling is that if we who want to fight copybotting and content theft don’t take the extra care to not fling accusatory attitudes so casually, as currently is the case IMHO, we do a huge disservice to all innocent parties involved, which includes both the falsely accused and those who are victims of botting and theft. Just scoffing it off as “oh well it’s not impossible to get your reputation back so whatever” is pretty disgusting to me.
Is it? I don’t think so.. SL has seen it’s share of plenty accused (falsely or not) continue to be successful and profitable.
People don’t care. Our little corner of the internet where we champion original work and frown on all types of content theft is just that – a little corner.
The masses don’t know and can’t be bothered to know. Or maybe I’m just having a cynical moment.
Also, for the record, I work in the apparel/fashion indsutry in RL, where it is perfectly acceptable and completely legal to engage in “intellectual property” theft (in the US). Once something hits the marketplace, I can copy it pretty much stitch for stitch, and for the most part, I can’t be sued or punished in any way (unless I’m ripping off a trademark, logo, etc).
There is pending litigation to change this (Trovata vs. Forever 21), but until that happens.. I’m not going to flip out whenever someone makes a mini dress that looks like mine. I’ll just try to make something newer/better.
Making public the name of an alt is not even remotely effective, copybotters, do not use RL information, nor are they connected to their main alts, so naming them is a waste of time. All it does is create a nice drama blog and the alt comes back as a new account the next day.
Furthermore, by publishing their names, your risk people contacting the botter direct and asking them for content and that does happen believe me!
I used to inspect people to check what they’re wearing, but you know, I see the ETD hair and many others from that particular folder, I see it daily and I cannot be bothered to IM people and inform them anymore. Half the time when you make them aware you get abuse, so I for one, have given up.
Thats what i just said
and I agreed, you asked for our thoughts, those were mine.
Baily, I’m sorry if you’ve had bad experiences reporting content theft to the original creators. In my experience, most would far, far rather know than not, so that they can do something about it (and the creators are the ONLY ones who can file a DMCA, although other people can file abuse reports).
Of course, designers will usually be upset to learn that their goods have been copied – and for some it will just be an iteration of something they have heard many times before. But unless they know, they can do nothing.
So please go on reporting the cases you see to the designers. You ARE doing a good thing.
It’s true they just change their name but it’s always good to put a dent in someones operation if only for a short time. Even when people use alts their MO is still there so letting others know to ban them from their land and stores for every alt isn’t a bad thing.
Copybotters ARE connected to their main avies – by MAC address, which can and is regularly banned by LL.
They can get around it, sure, you can change your computer’s MAC address. But it’s a bit of a beast to do.
So yeah, making alt names public doesn’t do much but LL banning by MAC address regularly will help.
When Linden Lab bans content creation for anyone except Gold Solution Providers then your problems will all be solved.
name and shame, its more fun and it stops these alts becoming slebs.
First are we talking actual copybot as in using a program to steal prim per prim a creators work within the grid? Or are we talking taking something we see on the grid or in RL and making similar on our own?
If it’s making something we see RL or SL (inspired I believe it’s called) then no…I don’t agree with name and shame. As a person who used to shop alot (sadly, I don’t as much anymore) just about *every* creator has items that are similar to every other creator on the grid or items that are similar to what I see in RL. There is no shame in creating something that has been inspired by something else. So I don’t see the need to name them
If we are talking prim by prim/script by script/animation by animation actual copying by using a program within the grid to *steal* work from another creator…then IMO….the name and shame should be left up to the creator that was stolen from. I personally would prefer for them to file the DMCA then state that they have done so and who it was filed against.
Possibly through a DMCA claims blog where the person being filed against can also state their side of the story….I don’t know how that work but it might. Or not.
Educating the grid about copybot is difficult at best. New residents get stolen content from all sorts of means….other people pass them (sometimes they know what they are passing and sometimes they are just as ignorant to the situation), from freebie stores and wherever else they receive free items. The vast majority of those new residents will know nothing about blogs, forums or copybotting until they are at least 2-3 months old….if not older. It depends on what their interests are. Even the blogs and forums are faulty with inaccurate information at times. So unless LL starts a mass campaign that involves teaching new residents about copybotting upon making their account….the issue of ‘how’ to get the word out will be an uphill battle.
Im specifically talking about botted items, I think I said that in the first paragraph, not inspired or similar but ripped content
You did, but then somehow I think comments started off on another direction. Actual Ripped content, I don’t have an isssue with shame/name as long as it’s the actual creator doing the shaming and naming. Otherwise, it all ends up as hear-say which results in drama and could be wrong which would result in someone getting flamed who was innocent. All that can be easily avoided by allowing the creators do it directly with the facts of the situation, whether a DMCA was filed and also allow for the person who is being accused to respond along with the final outcome. If the DMCA was dropped or was found to be false, etc…I think we should know that as well.
I like to know when a store has been ripped and I think most other shoppers (who are aware of this issue) do as well. It allows us to keep an eye out for the ripped items and alerts us to ONLY shop at that main store.
Bloody hell here we go again,DO me a favor look away from your monitor take a deep breath stand up walk to the front door open it and look THATS REAL LIFE, now come back sit down look at the cartoon pixels on the screen THATS A GAME.
So what if somone copys a pixel dress or a fake looking hair or a building but then i suppose you have lost sight of the real world 99% of people in the game wouldnt know or care where their items have come from and please go ahead name and shame people make it easy for people to get all the free stuff they like
I can’t wait for one of you to come here and complain they have been banned for making a false claim.
Also you cannot copyright a dress only the label
I hope you remember this next time someone steals an idea of yours that you are proud of, takes credit, gains recognition and financial reward, and no one gives the remotest fuck.
Katey, Honestly I woudln’t say i don’t give a fuck however i don’t care about copybotting ripping whatever you call it its a part of SL life. I go into a Store i buy something IN GOOD FAITH its not up to me to check if its stolen or whatever and shouldnt be up to you guys.
Now what i do give a fuck about is all the Good people who are being accused of stealing or copying by thier rivals who cannont match the building skills or creative genius so what they do put in a report to Lindens and get their cronies to do likewise .
What happens LL gets numerous reports of a Copy or theft and a Innocent person is sent to LL oblivion and before you say it don’t happen It does and will continue to do so, theres no Trial by Jury just straight execution meanwhile the real vilians the non creative losers will continue their witch hunt against people that are better than them.
interesting SLLA, I hear more and more of this happening. Professional jealousy, rivalry, what ever happened to good old fashioned competition. I have come across some interesting blogs recently one regarding false DMCA. I am surprised people take that risk, it is my understanding that it’s a serious offence to file a false claim, yet it seems to be happening more and more.
Or am I just hearing about it now?
Baily, I think its just an explosion happening thanks to blogs and numerous others like this.
Designer A makes a great quailty item and sells it for 10% less or more than designer B who also has a similar design.
Along come AV blogs she sees the design she paid $400L for selling for $20L she takes a pic LM and sends it off to designer B, guess what designer B does launches a how dare you sell a similar design for X amount cheaper and then goes through the process of destroying designer A not only in name but in reputation, all because of blogs like this scare mongering people and telling that its ok to do it and encourage it , You are not the Linden police , if Lindens are concerned let them go out and find these so called copy ripped items and oce and for all stop playing vigilanties, why dont you go get a good hard rogering , you will feel better for it
People have been copying my works as long as I have been making them. Some take the idea and roll a new derivative from it that is really cool. In one really big name case she actually tried to tell me my item was messed up. I told her that was exactly how the person that asked for it wanted it. So she went and made the idea she was talking about.
Happens all the time. I don’t go around bitching. Currently there is someone on xstreet with something a tad too close to the exact prim construction so they have earned me publishing mine as a freebie (since it is actually superceded by a new version). Try to undercut me with unimaginative near identical replicas I will take the market to zero. Life is a bitch. Move on.
When I come across someone with stolen content on, or in the act I snapshot and note card like the majority. I make it a note to say something along the lines of “I understand that this may not be something you’re interested in knowing, so please disregard this note card or need be.” Thus far I haven’t had any content creators complain about being informed of content theft. If anything they’ve been exceedingly appreciative.
All of this talk of copying and copybotting is becoming really fucking boring. As a designer, both in rl and sl, please, I’ll make my own mind up if I need to take action against someone who rips/bots my designs, I will also fight my own case if someone thinks I am copying their designs.
I was a member of AU from the beginning, I left after 2 days. Vigilantism benefits no-one and AU and SCD is coming dangerously close to that tag if not even over the edge. This is not a personal attack, I barely know any of you inworld and basically have no problems with you. However I will probably be straight on the SCD shitlist for speaking my mind. You know that saying ‘not in my name’? Yeah, it applies here, so please, pretty please, with sugar on top, keep your witchhunt to yourselves.
Not in my name
Oh and btw, I wont be responding, I have stated all that I need to say, and I am long out of high school. Darkely, this is not directed at you personally, it’s just a general malaise I experience when I read anything here.
Ammendment, I mean AV not AU
So, Tenshi, how’re those sunglasses sales workin’ out for you?
What does that mean, did she rip some glasses?
Unfortunately, there is no real way to stop content thief. Sad but true. No matter how tight LL because on rules, there will always be some rule breaker who will start an alternative viewer that allows people to rip textures and prims. In fact how do you know a texture is ripped? Makes you wonder how many avatars are walking around with ripped skins/shirts/pants? So far the only real way to tell if someone is wearing or using copybotted items are from the prims. But they have gotten smart and hiding the prim under an unknown name. To close my comment. The only way to true stop content ripping its for secondlife to restart everything. Lord knows that those people who do use copy bots have the items full prem and on alts. Or on there desktop as out of world files.
I’d love for the ones who post here to man up and I dunno, say where your shit really comes from. I mean are you out there ACTUALLY in photoshop, doing things from scratch? Can you product the PSD files from start to finish.
I know I can. Can you? Let’s all hold hands and man up. If you are going to be sanctimonious, get ready to be called out onto the carpet for it.
Now theres a point horrid if someone is accused of theft maybe LL can ask to see the psd files with a disclousre written on the psd layer by the person being accused no psd file guilty as charged. I spent over a thousand hard earned dollars buying PS4 extended but dont get me started ob software theft, SL copybotting is nothing compared to that.
*takes her ball and goes home*
Truth Sayer: “When Linden Lab bans content creation for anyone except Gold Solution Providers then your problems will all be solved.”
That is probably the most stupid thought ever. SL will die quicker than we can say “content theft.” Like in RL the good, new, innovative stuff in SL comes from the ‘underground,’ people who test around, are creative out of fun and not in it for money. Many of the really cool designers I know in SL upgraded only when their business became popular, and with your idea they would have stayed in SL for like 2 days.
And Darkley, relax! Not every comment is an accusation against you. And sometimes talking about other things helps more to get to the point than sticking to your ball game play.
its not about me, its about comments being so off topic
Actually the harsh cold reality is that SL would only die for the people Linden Lab no longer wants in SL. The future SL will be composed of sanitized government approved “normal” business clothing and only government approved places to live and a total lack of anything sexual or “interesting” in the new mainstream SL.
I read a lot of really obscure Japanese and Italian fashion blogs and I cannot tell you how many times I have seen some of the items remade on sl. By people lauded for being ORIGINAL CONTENT CREATORS, when in reality all someone did is see something cool and say “hey, I am gonna make that in sl.” If Ivey makes an “Alexander McQueen” inspired dress she is not ripping of AMQ, just as he is not ripping off Vivienne Westwood, who people always accuse McQueen of doing(and did so until they started showing together).. all Ivey is doing is making her own homage to something she loved rl, which is what every.single.rl.fashion.designer.does. Everything is derivative. EVERYTHING. It is one thing to copybott someone’s prefab and sell it as your own, a total different animal to have enough fashion sense to be familiar with designs and fashion and want to create your own version in sl.
Darkley re reading your post can i say babes there are no morals in SL and people who try to act as if there are are stupid, here’s an idea for you go out and ask people what they think of morals in SL and see what answers you get.
I’ve read shopping cart disco for awhile and I’ve seen a lot of arguments and stuff and was on the side of the boycott.
But I have to say it’s pretty freaking hypocritical to criticize someone for having a dress inspired by a real life designer when you have stuff in your own shop that’s based on real life designs.
I know Tenshi shop had a bag with Heath Ledger’s face on it.
Why weren’t you reporting yourself for IP theft? It’s just stupid.
There was a post here in SCD getting mad at LL for taking down Icing’s dress named Marilyn. It was inspired by Marilyn Monroe’s dress. That’s okay but Ivey can’t make a dress inspired by real life designs?
More to the point Icing has (or had) dresses there were exact copies of dresses worn to award shows.
Why isn’t SCD and Tenshi going after Icing’s store owner for that?
DISCLAIMER — I don’t think Icing is doing anything wrong. I just want to point out the HUGE FREAKING CONTRADICTION.
Maybe Tenshi should just be honest and say “IP theft and using derivative works is WRONG unless I like the person.”
I’m just one person and just a consumer in SL but SCD has finally lost my readership compltely.
“I know Tenshi shop had a bag with Heath Ledger’s face on it.”
Oh dear, is that true?
Tsk Tsk Tsk poor Heath cant lodge a DMCA from heaven but you knew that didnt you Tenshi? and his daughter cant spell yet or write her name
So I suppose you can get away with it , now we will all take with a grain of salt what’s written here by the bloggers another load of egotistical garbage from the gutter of SL time for the shopping cart to go to the big Mall in the sky . We await your reply Tenshi ?
I’ve made the point before about the only groups with the right to police this issue are the bodies set up in RL to do just that. Lynching mobs belong in the dark ages and although I’m sure most people’s hearts are in the right place there has been such a wealth of misinformation and downright fabrications that most people are more ignorant towards content theft now than they were before it became such a show stopping issue. The fact that we’re still talking about copybot is, in itself, laughably ignorant. Copybot is dead. People who steal content do so using viewers such as NeilLife, Meerkat, SexyLife, F*ckLife, Thuglyfe… I could go on. It’s no good trying to hide this information from people, how are content creators supposed to protect their rights if they’ve no idea what they’re protecting them from? I am all in favour of making people aware of the issues but let’s do it in a calm, responsible and accurate manner, shall we? It is also worth saying that users of the above viewers are not doing something wrong by default. The textures that have been grabbed from suspect objects featured on this very site have probably been taken using one of these viewers. I have made the point before that it is the content creator in question that has the responsibility to decide whether they want to instigate DMCA/AR proceedings against a possible incident of theft. By ALL means make a notecard of your suspicions and take snapshots and send it all to the designer, that is being a responsible SL citizen. Grabbing your virtual pitchforks and trashing someone’s reputation because you have the means to do so, well, that just stinks of a cheap paparazzi mentality to me. Cheap paparazzi mentalities are absolutely fine, mind you. Just don’t try and dress it up as moral superiority.
1) I used the same copybot as the generic name for rippers, that everyone understands, im not going to write every single method and viewer when ‘copybot’ will do.
2) The ‘Paparazzi’ as you call them are nothing without the original content creators consent, or the consent of the public, 99% of the time its the designer that comes to SCD, or the public.
There is no easy solution. But if I would act in RL like some suggest to react in SL, I would not have my job anymore.
I work in a store and we sell Mountainbikes. We are not cheap and every second supermarket offers bikes for 1/10 of our prices. Sure, the quality is shitty at best, but people still buy them.
The product is not copybottet, but the result is almost the same.
And even worse, every internetstore offers exactly the same things, for 20% less since they have less employees and no rent for a local store. Shimano offers them better prices due to the fact, that they buy in much higher ammounts.
There is nothing I can do against it, and it is absolutely legal.
What should I do? Close my local store? Keep complaining to every customer who enters my store?
No, the only thing which works is…
a) Personal service. I have time to talk to my customers, even when some are annoying asshats and appear in masses which I almost can not handle.
b) A name and a place which they remember. I am just there when they need something.
And this is how you keep your customers. Service and reliability. Forget that you are unique. You are not – even without copybot. You have to stick out of the grey masses and make yourself unique by the things you do, not the things you sell.
Most of you are neither Apple nor Mercedes-Benz. And even them have achieved their status by a clever marketing or quality.
It’s not about consent Darkley. Although it’s all very splendid of the designer or the ‘public’ to give you permission to ‘investigate’ an incident and then announce your findings to anyone who cares to read about it, it doesn’t prevent the question from begging to be asked… just what gives you, or any other blogger, the right to cast doubts over a person or persons who have not been found guilty of anything in a court of law? Because where I live a person is innocent until proven guilty, and that guilt has to be proven in a court. If you want to blog about content theives, fine, blog about the ones who’ve been found guilty of doing so. Otherwise you’re doing nothing but writing about hearsay, rumours and often out and out untruths. That type of writing will always collect readers, because drama is entirely more interesting in our often mundane lives than the often mundane facts.
Ok, just an example.
Designer ‘A’ contacts me to let me know of copybotter, passes chatlogs of conversations between them, snapshots of the items that shows the same prim placement, textures etc
http://shoppingcartdisco.com/?p=6413
Is that hearsay?, is this rumour? is this untrue?
could you please link me the untrue ones please
Oh and in which country do anonymous throwaway accounts get taken to court and prosecuted?
Darkley, I applaud you for wanting to do something about this, really I do, and I totally agree that more strigent methods need to be put into place, I don’t know if the matter you linked to is untrue, it might very well be complete and utter fact, the person involved could indeed be a nerfarious, drug dealing, baby eating, criminal mastermind. My point was that until that person is proven guilty in a court of law, or has admitted guilt, he is innocent. That is the way the law works, in the UK at least. This goes back to what I said before in a different post about it cannot work both ways. I am of the opinion that content creators (I am one myself) deserve RL protection of IP theft. BUT if we are to demand RL protection we HAVE to give ourselves up to be governed by RL law and standards of service, including keeping records of all sources, including agreeing to uphold our customers’ statuatory rights, including agreeing to be governed by a body set up for the purpose of governance. If we, as content creators, deserve to be protected by RL standards and law then we must accept our customers deserve it too. However, if we decide that we want to keep our independence, to make what we want to make (with rarely, if ever, being asked to show we used fully legal sources to make it), sell it for the price we decide, take the idea of customer service in the context we so desire, then surely it is just logical to accept that we cannot expect the law to jump to serve our needs when we demand it. Perhaps we’d prefer a system like There.com has? Where everything is submitted for a 3-4 working day appraisal before being released in world, to ensure it is suitable? To Monolock who made the response that Truth’s comment was ‘the stupidest thought ever’, what exactly do you expect LL to do? You don’t want them to actively police content creators by limited creation to approved people only… but at the same time we all want them to do SOMETHING!!11!! How about Darkley/Tenshi, instead of propelling SCD and yourselves forward as some kind of content theft crime fighting duo, with holier than thou attitudes firmly in place, you actually come up with some answers? Because I’ll tell you something for free, there have always been thieves, there will always be thieves. They used to have their hands chopped off, I have no doubt most of them worked their way around it to go on and steal again. So you won’t stop people stealing, but if this issue is genuinely something you’re passionate about, instead of putting all this energy into advertising the thieves, why not try and put it into a) ways to make content theft in SL harder b) ways to find content that has been stolen c) ways to make it easier for victims of content theft to take legal action against the suspected thief. Because those issues are the tough ones girls, naming and shaming and moaning about what nasty people content thieves are is the easy bit. Perhaps if people saw you put real, visible action behind your words they’d be more inclined to support your efforts, rather than shrug their shoulders and put it down to another slice of SCD drama baiting.
wow, wall of text, that makes it really hard to read but….
ignoring the hyperbole (baby eating) etc, thats my point, there is no ‘better business bureau’ there is no support from LL, so what IS the solution? I am involved in SL groups who are promoting original content, providing materials for consumers and creators.
Theft is here to stay, however there are things we can do to reduce its impact.
What is your solution?
Without LL radically changing their attitude towards content theft there is very little anyone can do, as far as I can see. In an ideal world there would be a commerce governance committee. Every designer would have to log their design by submitting either a .psd or equivalent and each design would be given a unique ID reference. Each product would need an ID reference before being set for sale. In cases of content theft accusations the ID files could be pulled easily and examined. This method would require ALL content creators agreeing to be policed by this committee… and there’s a fat chance of that ever happening. To be frank Darkley I don’t think there is a solution, especially not all the while Linden Lab really couldn’t give an ass.
thanks Amira
Still waiting for Tenshi to show and explain the blatent theft of an image used in a product. Or have they run off to a foreign land?
Thre clock is ticking
One of the unfortunate problems that keeps cropping up is the frequent confusion of trademarks with design copyrights. Hello Kitty and Disney take downs happen because they are trademark infringements. The items are taken down because they use a registered trademark, not because Hello Kitty made an identical purse/jeans/hat/whatever.
Fashion design has very little protection. Otherwise, there would be only one person producing open-toed boots, right? But there is not because designers influence and inspire each other and it’s an accepted and, for most designers, a positive synergistic element of their profession.
Moreover, even if fashion designers had copyrights that were enforceable, the fair use doctrine does allow copying in another medium. It’s clear that fabric and pixels are different mediums.
So, those who insist it’s illegal are simply wrong. Even in the TM cases where they are technically right, they ignore that some TM holders encourage fan tribute creations. In that case, the TM holders would be thrilled by the copies, not upset. That’s why it really is up to the TM holder to take action, though informing them of possible violations is certainly a fine thing to do.
They may have merit in saying it’s unethical or unoriginal. Those who disagree may have equally good arguments. The reason this gets to be so fraught, though, is the erroneous insistence on some sort of purity that does not exist in RL fashion, but is demanded of SL fashion. This becomes even more emotional when different examples of RL inspiration are treated differently.
As to Artists Voice, yes people should distinguish between AV and its president. However, when I was president of a large nonprofit, I knew I had to take care when speaking publicy and anytime I shared an opinion that was personal as opposed to organizational, to say right up front that the opinion was mine and not an official position of the organization. Leaders have an obligation to protect their organizations from these sort of misunderstandings and need to speak with clarity about what is personal and what is organizational. Tenshi, as much as I think her heart’s in the right place, does not take the necessary care to keep those boundaries clear, creating a false impression that she speaks for AV whenever she speaks about content theft.
Happily, there are steps that can resolve this. Everyone in AV should distinguish with what voice they are speaking when they are speaking publicly – everyone, not just Tenshi. Public accusations of copying should be limited to those that actually have the support of the person whose copyright has been violated. If the victim is not taking action or requesting support, then all you should do is let them know that you will support them if they need it. And folks should dial it down a notch. People can disagree with you and still be very good people. I disagree with lots of people whom I like and it seems to enrich my life – not damage it.
FUCK YOU, SLUT.
Looks like Tenshi won’t come out of hiding to answer so just what i thought another usless blog hell bent n destroying others when its ok for you to copy things and sell things you had a chance to prove me wrong well now lets see what happens.