‘Morph’ photography has become more and more popular in SL, and although I personally find them hideous and creepy as hell, everyone has their personal taste and who am I to question that? People morph images/blend images all the time, nothing wrong with that, using various backdrops, models and finishing touches to produce a new piece of art.
There is a problem though, the majority of SL morphs seem to take copyrighted images from deviant art, or celebrity images from the web, slap a SL avatar face on it and then sell it. What a lot of residents don’t seem to realise is, is that these images belong to the artists (in the case of deviant art) or the photographer. For example: If I took a picture of Halle Berry, that image would belong to me, and if you wanted to use it, you would have to pay me, the image does not belong to Halle Berry and it is not free for anyone to use. Copyright does not need to be applied for, although it does help, it is automatic. All images on the internet should be considered copyrighted unless stated otherwise, by taking an image from the web without finding out if you are allowed to or not is your responsibility, if you use these images you are at risk of a DCMA.
A Touch of Glamour is a photography studio with many photographers on staff that specialises in morph photography, they charge $2,000L per morphed image. I spoke to a Customer Service rep about their morphs.
[5:25]Â Darkley Aeon: so are you the person to talk to JimBeam
[5:25]Â Darkley Aeon: ?
[5:25]Â Jimbeam Miami: Yes ã‹¡
[5:25]Â Gaga Zane: brb
[5:25]Â Darkley Aeon: so how does te copyright on the morphs work?
[5:25]Â Jimbeam Miami: Kk gaga
[5:26]Â Jimbeam Miami: Their mostly pictures of Celebrities
[5:26]Â Jimbeam Miami: so their alright
[5:26]Â Darkley Aeon: yes, i see
[5:26]Â Darkley Aeon: so its their ?
[5:27]Â Jimbeam Miami: yea
[5:27]Â Darkley Aeon: i dont understand
[5:28]Â Jimbeam Miami: Yeah well they are online
[5:28]Â Jimbeam Miami: and they are of celebrities
[5:28]Â Jimbeam Miami: anyone can use them
[5:28]Â Lara Ubert: darkley u can walk around at the gallery and see some
[5:28]Â Lara Ubert: Yes.
[5:28] Lara Ubert: we haven´t had a poblem or anything
[5:28]Â Darkley Aeon: i have, i looked earlier and saw some of flickr, i was just curios to find out if you got permission before their use
[5:29]Â Jimbeam Miami: Were they of celebrities?
[5:29]Â Darkley Aeon: yes
[5:29]Â Jimbeam Miami: Then they are fine
[5:29]Â Darkley Aeon: why do you think that?
[5:29] Lara Ubert: they r fine don´t worry
[5:29]Â Darkley Aeon: the copyright stays with the photographer, they license their images out for $1000′s USD
[5:30]Â Jimbeam Miami: Because they are.. paparazzi are able to take and sell pictures of celebritire right?
[5:30]Â Darkley Aeon: they made them
[5:30]Â Darkley Aeon: you can take a picture, the copyright belongs to you
[5:30]Â Darkley Aeon: but if you use someone elses pictures, you are breaking copyright
[5:31]Â Jimbeam Miami: they are fine
[5:31]Â Jimbeam Miami: its just the body thats being used
[5:31]Â Darkley Aeon: thank you for you time, I just wanted to find out from A Touch of Glamour first
[5:31]Â Darkley Aeon:
They are not the only ones, not by a long shot but they are prolific. I went to at least 5 other morph photography studios in SL, but A Touch of Glamour is by far the largest. I am posting the following images from A Touch of Glamours’ flickr photostream, it comes under ‘fair use’ which means you can reproduce works without permission for reporting, education and parody purposes.
and the original
Was permission asked for or given for above picture? I have no idea, but I seriously doubt it. It’s not a paparazzi shot, it’s a paid for advert with Tyra banks, I’m positive that the professional photographer who makes his living by taking these pictures would not give his work away for free for SL photographers to slap a face on.
I then spoke to the owner of the gallery
2009/12/21 7:49]Â Mariposa Menges: IP theft?
[2009/12/21 7:49]Â Darkley Aeon: Intellectual property
[2009/12/21 7:49]Â Mariposa Menges: why would atog come up on a search for ip theft??
[2009/12/21 7:49]Â Darkley Aeon: because you are using copyrighted images
[2009/12/21 7:50] Mariposa Menges: oh? and how do you prove that?
[2009/12/21 7:50]Â Darkley Aeon: without permission, all photographic works are copyrighted unless stated otherwise
[2009/12/21 7:50]Â Darkley Aeon: because you told me you didnt get permission
[2009/12/21 7:50]Â Mariposa Menges: I didnt say that, I said that artists make the images, I’m not an artist
[2009/12/21 7:50]Â Darkley Aeon: i didnt say you were
[2009/12/21 7:51]Â Darkley Aeon: i spoke to someone earlier, but wanted to speak to the boss first
[2009/12/21 7:51]Â Mariposa Menges: yes, my partner tells me you make a habit of slandering successful companies in SL
[2009/12/21 7:52]Â Darkley Aeon: me? i never have
[2009/12/21 7:52]Â Mariposa Menges: just as I’ve never stolen Intellectual property
[2009/12/21 7:52]Â Mariposa Menges smiles
[2009/12/21 7:53]Â Darkley Aeon: except that i can prove that A Touch of Glamour does use works withouth permission, licenses for photos tend to be around hte $200USD mark, more for celebrities, you cannot prove i have ‘slandered’ anyone
[2009/12/21 7:53]Â Darkley Aeon: slander is verbal, libel is written, and i havent done either
[2009/12/21 7:53]Â Mariposa Menges: mhm
[2009/12/21 7:53]Â Mariposa Menges: well, there are no celebrity images in my gallery
[2009/12/21 7:53]Â Mariposa Menges: and how can you prove that my artists dont possess licenses?
[2009/12/21 7:53]Â Darkley Aeon: have you ever heard of tineye?
[2009/12/21 7:55]Â Mariposa Menges: nope, I told you, i’m a business woman, not an artist
[2009/12/21 7:55]Â Darkley Aeon: well, its a reverse search engine, so you can see the original image
[2009/12/21 7:56]Â Mariposa Menges: and?
[2009/12/21 7:56]Â Darkley Aeon: so you can see that the original photo is of tyra banks for example, and you can search down the original photographer
[2009/12/21 7:56]Â Darkley Aeon: and check licensing
[2009/12/21 7:57]Â Mariposa Menges: looks like you’ve got your work cut out for you…except that arent licenses made in RL names? and my artists use SL names….
[2009/12/21 7:57]Â Darkley Aeon: yes, but would an sl artist pay $200USD for a image that they are selling for $1000L?
[2009/12/21 7:59]Â Darkley Aeon: thank you for your time anyway, i know you are busy
[2009/12/21 7:59] Mariposa Menges: well, I cannot speak for my artists darling, but I have been made aware of the recent questions and issues arrising from artists making morphs in SL and i’ve instructed all my artists to use only sites that allow their images to be altered, etc. Beyond that, there isnt much I can do
[2009/12/21 7:59]Â Darkley Aeon: thank you
So, does this kind of thing matter? Does anyone in SL care about IP theft when it doesn’t involve SL creators? Do you believe this is IP theft? Do these morph photographers get permission and pay the fees?
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I left working at AToG for a few reasons.
1. 200L for having to deal with the dregs of the subcultures of SL for 2 hours a day – was not enough. In fact ask me now and there is not enough money in the world that would make me deal with those people again. I honestly believe that everyone there when I worked there was underpaid by a long shot. $1 for 2 hours work? Sweatshop workers are paid more.
2. I didn’t get along that well with the other staff, not to mention that fact that when I had my staff photo taken, Carterr Karu just stuck my face on a BEAUTY AVATAR image and hoped no-one would notice. I tried my best to fit in with them all but failed. I’m really glad I did now. I would be so upset to be assosciated with a studio that condones theft of IP.
3. I actually started to get unwell, stressing about getting to SL Work on time – and making sure I did my hours etc. SL isn’t for me, about having BOTH lifes full of hassle.
“2009/12/21 7:51] Mariposa Menges: yes, my partner tells me you make a habit of slandering successful companies in SL”
I’m sure she knows what she’s doing. If Mariposa cared she would have researched it herself. Instead she tried to insult the person asking about it.
Those pictures are creepy. Morphing just a head is easy but if they knew what they were doing they could PS a SL body to look more like a RL one. That takes in-world adjustmens and PS work but I guess that’s too hard for some.
Yes I would say this is IP theft.
And ugly.
Obviously these people are either ignorant or willful. Can Glamour magazine take a body shot from Vogue and photoshop their celebrity of the month on it for the cover? Of course not. It’s unthinkable, and no company would jeopardize it’s integrity over something so shoddy.
I have seen products that replicate real world products – Sesame Street characters, Disney, the Simpsons…that you can catch at fishing venues in SL. The attitude is, if they don’t charge for them, then it’s not theft, and no arguing with them (which I’ve done) can convince them otherwise. The fishing group got pissed at ME.
In the case of these photographers, they are making money off the work of a RL photog, which leaves them no defense at all.
Yes, it’s IP theft, and if you object to it happening to SL artists then you must also object to it happening to RL artists within SL.
As I said before. I think this is theft. Yet the artists think they haven’t done a damn thing wrong. I’m very happy you put this up, I was on the verge of sending one of the SCD staff these links in hopes morphing can be discussed.
After I had found a Flikr artist with a large abundance of very questionable, and very obviously copyrighted model photography, I informed her that she should make sure she had permission to use those in the off chance she unwittingly gets in trouble. I held of on stating my opinion, but when a friend of mine also commented on the same page of her’s she went and started posting on one of my photo’s and decided that this http://cleopatraandanthonyyalin.blogspot.com/2009/12/for-people-that-want-mind-my-bussiness.html would explain her rights in the situation. Needless to say, beyond that, not much else that she posted was as remotely “intelligent” or as thought provoking as you can see here…
http://www.flickr.com/photos/turquoiseunicorn/4197490637/
From your article, you are presenting the possibility of IP theft without hard evidence.
While I do agree that the practice described can be considered IP theft if the original photograph is not licensed, there is no proof (shown in the article) that this is happening.
Now, I am mostly sure that no one cared to find out what would it be the cost of licensing the original photograph before “morphing” it. Specially the responses from the first few people was around the idea that “these are celebrities photographs, they are ok”.
That said, you can not (with the information provided) claim that they are stealing IP. Goes with innocent until proven guilty.
Even though they’re already guilty of it on previous occasions?
As I responded to admin below this post, my comment is based on what I have read from this post and this post alone.
I am making no claims about anything that could’ve happen before that was not shared on this specific post.
Hi Don. You’re new here, aren’t you? Welcome to SCD.
Thanks
The post just caught my attention and my comment is solely on the content of this individual post.
I would gladly acknowledge being wrong if I can be shown that I am.
I have checked with various photo agency websites, starting prices for a picture (non-celebrity) is $60USD
It’s not like this is some new bit of information. Anyone who spends any time on the net has probably heard that Perez Hilton and some other bloggers were sued for using papparazi images from sites like wireimage.com without paying for them.
That picture is still creeping me out. Why didn’t the creator work on the nose shading.
Okay, why would anyone want that anyway? Thats gross looking and awkward.
I’ve seen or noticed these morphed pics in SL.. They certainly are a theft of an artist hard work. HOWEVER, I’d say the photosoucing stolen from fash mags and google to create clothing is the same thing, And I’ve seen fashionistas fighting bitter duals over who stole what from whom when they both stole it from some photographer/ artist source. Unless you paid the photographer for the use of their “Spring Line” photos in Vogue or anywhere else, you’re as guilty as these no talent hacks are.
Doooods.
IP law is not like running a stoplight. It isn’t always so clear what is and isn’t illegal. Piracy – like copybotting, is clearly illegal. Bloggers using other people’s images wholecloth without permission (like Perez Hilton – although Darkley herself cites an important exception in the educational fair use laws) violates copyright. For the laws on criminal copyright infringement, check out
http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/71mcrm.htm
Note especially the passages on willfulness and personal or commercial gain. Note also how they seem to apply mostly to piracy or counterfeiting of designer goods.
But most copyright infringement is a matter of lawsuits – for civil courts. Is morphing illegal? Check out
http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/Transformative_use
Is this transformative use? I dunno. Could a lawyer argue that it is? You betcha. Would s/he win? That’s for the court to decide. Last I checked, the law is rather foggy because neither side wants to set a precedent. A friend of mine who is a lawyer and has a special interest in fanworks says that the court has tended to side with artistic expression over corporate interests, especially when no profit is involved. (This doesn’t apply to someone exactly reproducing Cookie Monster for a fishing game – but if I made a big statue of Cookie surrounded by fat children scarfing cookies and said that it represented the way children’s television encourages poor nutrition…that, my friends, is constitutionally protected satire. How do you think Warhol got away with the Campbell’s soup cans?)
In general, when people do things like morphing which are not for sale, it’s ignored. It’s ignored because the amount of “damages” it generates won’t justify the cost of a lawsuit. The fact that ToG et al is selling these pics increases the risk of a lawsuit – but how much money are they making, really?
Let me stress that whether it’s illegal has nothing to do with whether you or the community feel it’s right – or creepy. If you say “I feel it’s immoral,” that’s just dandy. But I’m sick of hearing people threaten, “You might have a DMCA filed against you.” I might have a lawsuit for defamation of character filed by one of the students I just failed, too, but that doesn’t mean the lawsuit would succeed. Spurious lawsuits are filed all the time.
Personal opinion? The transcript indicates that Ms. Menges knows damn well that what her “artists” are doing is in a very legally gray area and doesn’t know or care doodly about transformative use. But unless it’s decided in a court of law, I wouldn’t be so certain to call it illegal. IP law is complicated, and a lot depends on the skill of the lawyers and the interpretation of the judge concerned.
And what if there was a lawsuit, and the judge found in favor of Ms. Menges? In your eyes, would that suddenly make what she is doing right?
Shimere. <3 You always provide such thoughtful arguments. Thank you!
Wow you can’t swing a prim cat these days without hitting more disinformation about copyright. I don’t have the bandwidth to cover all the fail here.
Bottom line is that while everything created in the US is automatically covered by US copyright, how those rights are handled are in the hands of the copyright holders. If you care so much about what you believe to be a copyright violation contact the copyright holder and let them handle it. It is the job of every copyright to defend their copyrights however they see fit. Only the copyright holder can claim “IP Theft” or talk about permissions, fees or how they want to handle any case involving their works.
And the US was quite late to the copyright party. What you say is true in most countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_international_copyright_agreements
So using your reasoning. I can rip a photo that is marked with copyright restrictions and use it how I see fit but it’s ok as long as the photo owner doesn’t say or do anything about it?
Yes, only the copyright holder can file a DCMA, I wrote this as there is disinformation all over SL and Flickr that if it is of a celebrity, or if you get it from google images its ok to use.
It’s not
Mariposa Menges makes a habit of ripping people off and fucking anyone over anyway she can.
Ask her about how she stole a club out from under her “partner’s” feet and you will see what sort of person she really is.
Business woman my ass!!!
You have alot of Nerve writing this about Mariposa!She is one of the Most pleasurable Women i have ever Met! How dare you say this about her! You should be Ashamed!
No “StellaWasTaken”, if a photo is marked with specific restrictions and you go against them you, Obviously, know you are in the wrong. However it is still the copyright owners job to decide how to handle their own copy rights.
To assume All copyright holders care about what goes on in SL is foolish. Sure many have come in and asked for content to be removed or filed DMCAs. However one would guess many look at SL like fan art, sure some people make a small amount of money off it, but it doesn’t effect their bottom line and it’s not enough for them to care.
I realize that but I don’t believe anyone invovled in the post is trying to file DMCA’s on behalf of the photographers. Just because the photogs don’t know what’s going on in SL doesn’t mean that illegal use shouldn’t be pointed out.
The only way this isn’t wrong is if the images they used were stock images or royalty free, beyond that I’d say it’s wrong. If you are using the photo without permission you need to credit the person who’s original photo you used. That’s common sense.
I used to do graphics quite frequently, I even worked for a studio but I realized I was making less then a dollar in USD (400L) and quite shortly after. Spending hours on a photo and getting a few pennies. Are you serious?
There may be photographers who have no idea their art is being used in ways that violate their copyright.
You can’t assume that because an artist hasn’t filed a DMCA that they are aware of what is going on and are okay with it.
Aside from the fact that I think these photo morphing studios are infringing on ip rights
…the morphed photos look so gross *falls over laughing*
it looks like a decapitated sl head pasted onto a body. The face looks angry and the mouth looks…monkey-esque. Beyond me why anyone would pay for this.
I just think morphing in general is a tacky rip off of real art..think about the SL economy…there’s no need for hair,poses, props, shoes,or clothes for a morphed photo. It also takes away the true artistry of REAL SL photographers who spend hours upon hours in PS fine tuning their craft.
A friend of a friend does morphed photography that’s won awards..I think its a spit in the face of the true photographers.
I knew all my years of watching reality tv would pay off. lol Ms. Tyra Banks Does not allow anyone to use her picture without being paid. She has stated so on Americas Next Top Model. For one she is a model and she makes her bread and butter with her pictures. She also stresses to the models to find out what their rights are about residual income. (layman terms if the picture is used again, that model is supposed to be paid again) Also if you watch her show (its daytime tv here in the states) She has talked about people ripping her image and photo shopping before. So i can state 100% that they do not have the artists permission for Tyra’s picture. Im also certain that is a sports illustrated bathing suit edition. So if they got if off the net, it was shot for a magazine.(I say that because of the comment about it being a celebrity and on the net.)
Ive always looked at the morphing as freaking weird. To me its like ripping a ford engine out and saying you made the new car you put it in. The hard work has already been done. I’m not saying it doesn’t take hours in ps to make one but have you seen how long an actual rl model shoot is? They take all day long. If not a couple of days. Why don’t they go through the hard work RL artist go through to set the model up make sure the lightening is right, Make sure they aren’t crossing their eyes or blinking. Thats the hard work. Not some slap happy cut and paste job.
Who pays L$2000 for a photo for SL anyway? Do some viewers not come with a Snapshot button?
Take your own pic, throw it into Photoshop or Picnic and ratchet up the Hue intensity and you’ll have one just like this one.
$1000L for that sh!t? woa! Why I never come across those suckers in SL? Srsly, it’s so badly done that Tyra should sue for damages, let alone IP infringement. Did I say that it looks really ugly? But ugly as sin. In a sh!t-ugly kinda way.
Being required by my rl job to purchase and use stock photography and the like, I am very familiar with copyright issues in the U.S. and the use of images like the example in this post is definitely a copyright infringement — either of the photographer who took the photo or the agency that may have had the photo taken for a specific reason and owns the licensing to that photo. The fact that it is a photo of a celebrity in no way makes it legal for public use unless YOU are the photographer or license owner and YOU have made it available for public use.
I remember a rl client who wanted to put a picture of SPIDERMAN on his business card (??) and figured it was perfectly alright because he found the image on the internet, so it had to be legal, right? And the client who wanted me to design his logo to mimic Tropicana’s logo — and said he had permission to do so. I spoke with Tropicana’s lawyer and when he stopped laughing he said if I were to do something like that, MY NAME would be the second one on the law suit…
Halle Berry’s agency would be just about as likely to license the use of her image to someone in SL as the NFL would be, or Disney, or Mattel, (or many of the other companies whose trademarks and copyrights are infringed upon in SL daily) which is like, not likely at all. And the fines for infringement go up substantially when the use is done knowingly rather than by accident.
I dont get why people morph an sl face on a rl body in the first place. Its ugly and creepy! Btw its not all Deviantart sources you cant use. If you search for stock images there are lots of pictures artists give permission to use as you please. :p
There’s a fine line in copyright laws regarding digital media. If you take an image and make no change and sell it as your own, that breaks laws. If you make a drastic changed to the image (such as morphing an avatar’s face onto it), it is allowed to be redistributed as new artwork.
Morph images do not break any sort of copyright law, and you have no right to be the judge of if they do.
You have also violated the Second Life Terms of Service by posting chat logs with the original avatar’s name. Aren’t you smarter than that? I wouldn’t be surprised if this people sent an Abuse Report.
1) slapping a face on it, where the original image is still instantly recognisable is not a ‘drastic’ change
2) this is a 3rd party site, the SL TOS does not apply, read it again please
fail fail fail
astonishingly incorrect – ‘derivative use’ needs permission as well.
Darkley really get a life, if you are hunting down people on sl beacuse of stuff liek that than you HAVE to hunt down everyone on flickr and devintart and all the internet for doing same stuff.
If you know copy rights laws so much ou should read them again and again cause you are braking them as well. You all should sit your ass down and re read thouse laws befor doing a witch hunt against people, cause what do you know if some of you are designers and store owners one day they can come after you as well.
Hey I work in tog right now and yeah morph images are pretty cheesy, but to the point. These people will probably not get sued and they will never think that they are wrong (they actually posted this as a notice in group saying “witch hunt”). Thank you for taking the time to write this piece, you guys made my evening. <3
you need to go work elsewhere since you think so little of them- oh wait – you probably can’t get the traffic.
Ok guys this is just an hypocritical attitude… i want to know how many of you doesnt download music, wallpapers, movies, even images to display on your computer?!! For Photoshop work…. Brushes, Backgrounds, etc??!! this is just stupid, are u guys using Diff viewers from the one LL recommends? thats illegal too… thats why they r implementing the Third viewer Rule… thats “stealling”… so please take a look at yourselfs bfore looking at others and judge…
TYVM!
I dont own anything illegal. I buy all my music with the exception of the ones that artists put on their website for free. I dont download movies for free. I have a netflix subscription so i can watch all the movies i want cheaply. I own (bought and paid for) my copy of Photo shop. I dont download wallpapers because they are full of virus. So umm yes there are honest people out there. Maybe because you do and think it is ok, not all of us do. And you know most ps brushes are free if you look hard enough for them.(adobe site is full of them if you own your copy ) Oh and i may be one of the lame people who, yes, still usess the LL viewer. No wiggly boobs and all. =)
I buy music from iTunes. I even paid $20 to $24 a CD back in the days before the CD stores were sued for price gouging and before Walmart started selling $10 CDs. I rent DVDs from Netflicks. I don’t download images to use on my PC unless I pay for them or have a free right to do so. I come from a family of real life creators so I respect their right to control their creations and make money.
Not everyone is breaking copyright laws.
Seriously, I think this is amusing and I want to thank you Darkly for the free publicity darling. I think everyone has made very interesting points but the most interesting is that this is indeed a very grey area. We origianlly started ATOG as normal SL images and morphs came along later and blossomed out of client demand. I’ll be doing more research into this and if I am able to locate a clear precendent as to this being IP theft, we’ll remove our morphing service. I do think though Darkly that you should re-visit the SL TOS bec you might just find that you are not without blame as well
Pleasant holidays everyone and best wishes in the new year
Even though I don’t care for SL morphing I don’t think you have to stop the service. If you train your staff on determining free use then you won’t have a problem.
I would just have to say, Lets take a different look at this Topic! If this is Against COPYRIGHT then mostly everything in SL is Against COPYRIGHT!!! The Textures we use for our Homes,Our Skins,Cars,Clothing the WHOLE SL WORLD wouldnt Survive!!! Stop Bashing someone who is so Successful. Im warning everyone of you. You dont know what a Good Person Mariposa Menges is and i think all of you who say otherwise should be Ashamed!!!
I am a photographer at AToG and first of all i have to say that to make a morph is not to slap an avie face on a rl body, its really hard work, this girl who wrote that has no clue of photography and art and is creative like a cow lost in the space. We want to make SL happier and not bad, RL is already hard enough but now to hunt little fishes showes off boring times for some ppl. I am very sorry that the person who wrote this bad stuff is NOT as talented as she wants to and i feel very very sorry for her person. To make now even SL a dark place is good for her seems like. Oh no i forgot , i am wearing a celebrities name, is that now also forbidden? OMG i am so sorry.
Morphs are not Ugly and ppl who say that have no eyes for art.
Thank you Beyonce
Oh and yes, AToG is really the largest Photography service and i am damn proud about.
okay I have done a lot of art on and off sl, and copyrights always seem to be a huge issue. My question is if you are really worried about copyright issues, why would you waste time bashing people? If that was really your intentions then you are doing it completely wrong. Did you have permission from any of the people that you copied their conversations? Did you get permission to repost the so called stolen work? Or even to repost that original that you claim is stolen? Oh wow, if not then you yourself just broke copyright law? Cause now your site has a picture on it that you didn’t take, and you didn’t get permission to use even if it was just for example. What I don’t understand is if there is all this illegal stuff going on, why are you only mentioning AToG? Is it because we are the biggest there is as you claim? Do you have something against AToG for a different reason? I will have to say I am proud of the work that AToG does and I am sure that if there is any illegal so called work being done that we as an AToG family will figure it out and take care of it. Mariposa Menges is a great boss to work under, and she takes things that go on in our gallery very seriously. So stop being haters and trying to drag people down with all the drama.
I agree With Melenda 110% =)
So um can we stop focusing on this piddly shit and start worrying about the thieving skinners and clothing makers ripping from photos from google or brand sites to do their creations? this piddly shit for your witch hunt is pretty much pointless and useless. Why not do some real digging and make a post that matters.
They make ugly photo – morphs. Yes its wrong, yes they should be more educated. But I gottat ell you, people out there are making far more, big names and brands that are doing it all illegally by snatching copywritten work for their creations.
Small beans kids, this worry over morphs. Take a good look the next time you put on something…the next time you buy a texture, skin, shirt, pants anything with photobase. And wonder to yourself, just how much of it was legally attained resources? thats where the problem lays.
Not with these guys (who again yes its wrong) that are making enough to buy a burrito meal with super sized mt.dew across the boarder at taco bell.
And before you flame me, can you honestly say im wrong?
Theft is theft, be it botting or googling. Maybe some of the designers contributing to the problem should rethink their actions, get some talent and show us what they can really do.
xx- tyr
@ TBH
we don’t use the music, and wallpaper we download to MAKE MONEYYYY!
Why don’t you make some sense?
That is the difference.
thats kind of like, playing ”The Sims” and downloading custom gucci clothes or custom hair, copying off original artist and claiming it as ur own….its only in this world, were not saying we created the whole pic, were just claiming the parts that we added in it.
You ppl are looking to deep into it. Its a photo we morphed, big deal? its a picture, end of story. Get over it and move on with ur life. You copy ppl everyday. Make a turkey sandwich for lunch? well, you copied off the first turkey sandwich maker in the world.
Did u make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch? You used someones idea and claimed it as ur own. Congrats. Life is full of copying and claiming it as ur own.
Actually Lei, people use music and other copyrighted items in SL all the time without the rights to do so and they do it for profit. DJ’s, Live mucisians, creators who make cards and flowers and bears who play a song….i’m sure none of that was an authorized use
But really the point here and what i’m looking into is if using an image downloaded from the website and altering it into a new image is legal or not. As mentioned earlier, its a grey area and leave alot of questions to be answered.
I also think that if Darkly is on a witch hunt, she should look into the other IP theives such as the clothing makers, dj’s who use limewire and other share programs, and creators who use music and other copywrited prperty to sell their items.
This Article is – quite honestly – Disgusting. The writer seems to have a personal agenda. I write that with No evidence, and like the author, am proud of my baseless accusation. Dear author, if you are truly writing for justice in intellectual property, might you consider not starting a witch hunt and go through proper channels. If you truly care about educating the artists of SL about copyright issues, might you consider NOT singling out one business- for which you only cited one business, graciously ignoring others on the grounds that their “offense(s)” was not as “prolific” – might you consider going to Linden Labs and bringing forth an issue of concern. Gambling was dealt with as such, as was banking and underage participation. These issues were subsequently dealt without malice and with sincerity.
Right now you come off as someone who has an axe to grind with Mariposa Menges and her business.
The problem here is you don’t really care about this issue. You really just desire to cause harm to someone for your own personal malevolent reasons.
That is Disgusting.
another thing, ”DARKLEY”, half the time we make the orginals look 10X better. The photographers of the orginal pieces should be thanking us morph photographers. The image you’ve posted of tara banks, u can clearly see, the morphed one is 10X better then the orginal. Shadeing is better,Sharpness id better, hue is better…i could go on. The morph photographer is probably waiting on a thank you from the orginal artist of the tara banks photo.
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If thats the case, why is the SL face so f-en hideous?
Ask the person who made the skin or the person who bought the skin and then bought a photo of themselves in it. It’s all a matter of opionion what is beautiful and what is hideous. What you don’t like, someone else does.
^^opinion
Love u r not taking it away to make money.. that im sure of… but YOU ARE STEALING from the artis who made it…its STEALING!! Downloading illegally is STEALING… and u r taking the profits away from the artist love!!
WHY DNT U PURCHASE LEGALLY??
What we are up against here is ignorance and lack of education. Once some creates an image, they own the copyright. They don’t have to register it, they don’t have to claim it, they don’t have to hunt it down and pin it to the ground – it’s theirs by right. It doesn’t matter if it’s a picture of Beyonce or a brick, they own the rights to the image they have created. They may choose to waive those (internationally agreed) rights, but unless you know for a fact that they have, chance are that if you take that image and use it, you are breaking copyright law.
It really doesn’t matter if you’re a nice person who wears pink and cuddles bunnies, or a screaming mega-blingy-bitch-ghetto-whore – it’s just opening yourself up to potential prosecution to use copyrighted images in this way – so YOU may well be the victim, not the original copyright owner, because YOU are the one who has made bugger all RL cash from this, but who finds some legal document dropping through your letterbox which will traumatise you and your family, and which could end up costing you RL cash.
Think about that, all those who are supporting the morphers who ‘have done nothing wrong’ – YOU are putting them at risk of prosecution – and you call that supportive? If you really like/love/whatever the people who do this then you will be advising them NOT to put themselves at risk – which they are doing.
…or you can carry on supporting them into court. Send them <3 mail which will REALLY help them when they (potentially) find themselves having to sell their assets to pay their fines as a result.
Real friends would do real research and offer real advice. Happy Christmas one and all!
There is no copyright law infringement what so ever. Here is the reason why: 1) at ATOG, artwork is not sold en mass. All artwork can be displayed but is only sold to the specific client, whos likeness is there off. (unless the artwork is commissioned as a gift)
2) this is true of all artwork, morphed and non morphed alike.
3) Once the likeness of the avatar is morphed into a real life likeness, the picture now becomes the partial property of the person behind said avatar. Incidentally, the other partial owners are the following: Linden Labs, Artist, Artist’s employer, and the real life photographer, and real life subject. If all parties do not object to the new likeness… and do not demand their part of the financial pie (which equates to 400L of 2000L … which is less than $2.00 US) then, the new likeness – IF IT WERE TO BE DISTRIBUTED – is free from copyright infringement.
4)HOWEVER, in these cases, the client is asking for a specific service for personal use- NOT COMMERCIAL USE- SO NO LAWS ARE BROKEN.
Now please find a real issue to fuss about
YO, DARKLEY….. http://www.flickr.com/photos/darkley/3884897948/in/photostream/ TY LOVE FOR STEALING THAT BACKGROUND!
now u r going to b sued too 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/darkley/3867080423/in/photostream/ actually theres ALOT on your flickr page that could be considered as Stealling
http://www.utsystem.edu/OGC/IntellectualProperty/copypol2.htm#test
This is a very interesting site for you Polero and anyone else who wants to continue to question the integrity of ATOG and morph artists in general….by using this scale, we clearly fall under fair use. So move it along everyone and find someone else to persecute.
There is that old saying which i always thought was silly and childish, but maybe you should have taken it more to heart: When ever you point a finger at someone, there are four fingers pointing back at you.
I am just lolling hard at the person saying the morphed photo looks BETTER than the original. Are you KIDDING me? Those morphs give me nightmares!
lol hun, ur face on a morph would give me nightmares too
good lord.
I don’t get where ‘witch hunt’ comes from, as far as I am aware I don’t know any ATOG photographers, never spoken to any of them before. I chose to write about ATOG for 2 reasons……there were CSR’s in store when I went there, the rest were completely empty (I went to 5 other morph photographers) and they are the ‘biggest’ in terms of advertising in search/classifieds) no mystery, no agenda
If you check my photostream and READ the comments, I cite my sources where it’s not SL.
When money changes hands that = commercial and therefore cannot be classed as fair use.
The images posted here CAN be classed as fair use.
*face palms*
Darkley, you only credited the pic after someone called you on it months later, and your response…
“hello anonymous internet person who hasnt got the ball to say who they actually are in SL or what their issue with me is *waves*
Its an image i bought in sl, and have it as a backdrop”
I guess you tend to get defensive just like the rest.
then name all other offenders – and their owners’ names. Better yet…Go to Linden Labs and talk about real solutions and education practices and STOP YOUR FINGER POINTING. Your nothing more than a pot stirrer right now.
Good Job officer darkly, hopefully santa brings you an industrial size package of tampons, a hall monitor badge and some aerodynamic write up slips =) seriously if someones going to alter a celebrity photo for what looks like a couple hours of work to receive sweatshop wages on their time invested don’t you think that’s punishment enough? Your obviously swinging an ex caliber sword at a group of individuals obviously participating in the craft as a passion rather then a highly profitable crime scheme, I highly doubt a lawsuit entailing the cost of lawyers required not even counting the amount of the lawsuit itself would justify the nature of the crime in its slightest, should because of this blog someones life is ruined in debt because they edited a picture for at what their rates look like “fun” im sure you’ll feel no guilt or presence of “snotty bitch hall monitor” in your conscious.. or will you? I think in explaining the implementations of what your bringing attention to is doing more harm then good and you might take a second look like hey wait.. what am I doing, but heck that’s only if you were a good person right =p One cannot learn without admitting wrong, regardless of the technicality’s.
I agree with the comments about morphs being pretty ugly, no, SL avies perhaps aren’t all that great but I’d rather look like an avatar than a freak of nature lol. Having said that however there is no denying that morphs are in consistent high demand. Although I most definitely do not agree with stealing artwork (I sure as heck wouldn’t want someone taking one of the pictures that I spend time creating and ripping it apart) I do have to agree with the point made above that the original post was not made with the intentions of actually FIXING anything, rather to simply cause drama and to get people hot under the collars… but then, that’s what SCD is good at, right?
Can I also state for the record that not ALL ATOG photographers do morph pictures, and even those that do don’t ALL steal other people’s artwork to create said morphs. I am rather taken aback by the rep’s responses to Darkley’s questions, obviously some education regarding this area is required, but please, don’t tar us all with the same brush.
A question for you, unnamed ATOG photographer, and please understand I am not trying to be snarky or sarcastic: I went to the gallery and I did like a lot of the photos that were non-morphed. It’s clear to me that many of the ATOG photographers are talented. If what Cyclic said is true and you basically get paid $100L/hour for your work, why do you continue to work for them? I realize that there is a demand for photography services; not everyone is able to use GIMP or Photoshop. But it seems to me that you’d get paid more by striking out on your own than by being with an agency. Or does the agency provide a lot of traffic so it doesn’t matter?
Its the traffic.
Of course it’s the traffic cause you are one greedy bitch, and you rather sale out all your friends but still cash in. If you don’t agree with the place you work in don’t work there after it’s SL not RL you have other options. But again you get more clients and more money working at that place so why would you?! And I’m pretty sure the backgrounds you get for you pictures are not cerdited and being downloaded like the rest do.
Why does someone have to start name calling?! I’m not a greedy bitch and I certainly haven’t SOLD (as opposed to saled) out all my friends (what does that have to do with anything anyway?). If you’d read my post properly you’d have noticed that I specifically said that a) I did not agree with the PHOTOGRAPHERS who use stolen art and b) I was of the opinion that there was a need for education on this subject within the company. Thank you Xiomara for your sensible and calm post, in response to your question, when I was running my own studio I was probably earning the same as I am currently but with far fewer clients, but after shutting the studio down for a SL break and starting back up with the same pricing I was finding it difficult to regain the number of clients to even cover my tier, let alone match what I’m earning now. So I had to look for other options. Sure, given the choice I’d love to work for myself and set my own rates but currently that isn’t financially viable, so for the time being I would rather earn enough to continue being able to have a SL home and have some pocket money than strike out on my own again and not be able to have the things in SL that make it fun for me.
Also, brff, to address your point regarding where I acquire my backgrounds, I BUY my backgrounds from renderosity which I would be happy to provide proof for if it wasn’t for vitriolic posts such as yours which make posting with my name impossible if I am to avoid personal attacks.
I’m surprised that anyone could look at that site http://www.utsystem.edu/OGC/IntellectualProperty/copypol2.htm#test and come to the conclusion that this morphing business falls under fair use. I’ve just looked at it, and the four considerations point directly to requiring permission, not fair use.
1. Character of use:
Commercial (someone mentioned that they are for client’s personal use, which is irrelevant, if the image is paid for by the client, it’s commercial use).
2. Nature of work:
Imaginative.
3. How much of the original work is used:
More than a small amount
4. effect on market for original:
Avoids payment for permission in established permission market.
The answers for each category are as far from fair use as it’s possible to get.
*shrugs*
Oh and that comment about how the original photographers should be grateful to the SL artist? Funniest thing I’ve read in a very loooong time.
If you are charging clients for these morphs, then that is NOT fair use, whether the purchaser decides to keep the resulting image at the bottom of a deep dark drawer and never let it see the light of day (which I would advise, given the sheer Frankenstein’s monster horror of the results), or wanders around wearing it on a T-shirt. The purchaser’s use is not the issue, it’s the fact these images are being SOLD to them.
Am wrapping up free clues and putting them under certain people’s trees. Enjoy.
the images are created at the request of the purchaser- for the purchaser’s use. No one holds a gun to the purchasers’ head. The image is then possibly used in the gallery as an example – it is not sold en mass.
doesn’t matter, sold to one person or sold to 100, it’s still sold.
it does matter if it is requested artwork
why the work is done is totally irrelevant if money changes hands. And so what if the patron has requested it, how on earth does that absolve the morpher from all responsibility for checking the copyright?
the usage by the purchaser matters dear if the artist is not using the artwork as anything other than an example – then there is no problem. Its personal usage – plain and simple.
except they havent purchased the images, they just took them from the internet, and its not personal usage when you profit from it, and create a business around it.
I suggest you actually look at copyright law, because you have got virtually everything wrong so far.
My dear – I consulted a real life photographer AND a real life Atourney. I suggest you do the same before you talk out of your rear end as you seem to do quite often.
yes ‘dear’ I was a professional RL photographer, and its ‘attorney’ not Atourney
pardon my spelling errors. everyone is prone to a typo now and then. If you had been reading and comprehending what I wrote (maybe the typo was to much for you to be able to do so) you would have understood that I did not ask you if you were a rl photographer. I commented that I consulted with a real life photographer and also an attorney. Clearly you have no real answer so you have reverted to a childish game by pointing out a typo for the purpose of overlooking your shit-stirring massive error. By the way are you ever going to respond to the accusations I mentioned above? Or are you going to find a typo to focus on up there too? Suck on that ‘dear’.
I already did, and you used the example of consulting a RL photographer as if that proved your point. It doesnt I was a RL photographer and I know that you can use someone elses work without consent.
Using images you have no permission for, which are under copyright for profit is not fair use, is not personal use and is not legal, which a RL Lawyer would know
Show me some actual evidence that you are correct please
Love i read your coments
and u got really deffensive about it cuz some people was telling u to credit…*sighs*… its the same thing we are doing here… why is it cool that u do it…??? and why cant someone else do it too… take a look at the mirror sweetz…:) and see whats wrong with u bfore throwing the first stone…
I didnt think it came across as defensive, more tongue in cheek ‘up yours’ to the anonymous person who decided to comment on 8 of my images in the space of 5 minutes with ‘STATE YOUR SOURCES’ where anyone with any sense could see that they were taken in world or using brushes.
OK after 2 days of flowing this bullshit i find that all of you are life-less! You go around SL trying to ruin people, taking their name down to the dirt for crimes you should be blame from yourself. Darkley is clearly an hipocrite, darkley dearest incase you thought different you shit doesn’t smell better than anyone you point fingers at. And about fair use, well befor you come blame a bunch of people who make for a morph less than 5 US$ go blame named shoe stores on sl who make alot of money on a desgin they stole from Louis Vuitton (http://www.luxurylaunches.com/entry_images/0309/20/Louis_Vuitton_shoe.jpg) but I’m sure all of you have shoes from that store including Darkley so that’s ok if they make alot of money on that.
Heck go all around SL meet every builder start asking where they got their textures, why wont we close SL at all cause there is so much stealing… stick to RL there is no stealing over there, o wait there is.
And by the way even if you don’t use the music and movies you steal for money, it is steal stealing cause the artists makes 0 money but you still enjoy their stuff.
And i’m sorry for my typoness, but I guess SLers are only good at writting everything in massive typos
Morphs are just hideous… please don’t do them. The SL face never really fits the RL body and it looks very creepy. Euw.
I hate morphs. End of story.
The site Mariposa provided was for a specific university and the use of material for educational purposes. You my dear are SELLING copyright stuff. THAT is different.
THIS: http://www.flickr.com/photos/darkley/386708423/in/photostream/ is not an Inworld setting… and im pretty sure is not all brushes… so where did u get the BG matters… cuz u r talking about stealing.. and u dnt credit anything… and if u r using smth u find as a Backdrop it might b stolen.. and using stolen content is the same thing as if u stole it yourself…
Taking someone else’s image to photoshop then sell or even for personal use (especially if posted on flickr) is wrong and illegal. Sorry that cannot be argued, it’s not your image. But what about DJs in sl stealing music to make a profit, designers who photosource their clothing or rip designs from rl. I can guarantee you if you start looking within your own circles and within your own inventory you are no better. Before you choose to be a copyright crusader, Darkley go back and correctly credit your backgrounds on your flickr page because it wasn’t done for every pic you did with a ripped image.
@ THB I do actually purchase all my music thru iTunes and buy actual dvds…I have a job irl that I am well paid for ^^
Good at least u r good for smth…
and not just a waste of words..
Okay so in addition to my own post I wanted to reply to anonymous photog. I hate to break it to you, your photos are shit. Most of the photographers who work at that studio are shit and probably shouldnt be around photoshop or pretend they have talent. The only one with talent that wasnt ripping off illegal content was hotdogs and well..she is fancy with a brush. Go learn from her and stop frankensteining photos.
Because no srsly, content theft aside, it really looks like ass :/ and your customers are getting rubbish.
Learn 2 have talent
xoxo tyr
uhm, i did learn from hotdogs….
Sorry to say but in all fairness hotdogs started the morphs at atog and hotdogs used just as many copyrighted images as anyone else so please don’t make her out as a saint and put down everyont else.
??????
Morphs came before any particular person – Hotdogs included.
i retract that statement – I did not realize Hotdog was Lav. My mistake.
Way to slam 20 artists you don’t even know. Loser.
Dear Tyr I’m glad you are talking about talent, I do agree that Hotdogs is one of the most talnted motherfuckers ever but talking so much sit about other people when I’m sure you don’t even know half of the people who work there, is stupid. For my taste I think you stuff looks like shit and I don’t like them so I don’t buy at your store, so you can do the same don’t like don’t pay. But I don’t go around saying to people what i think about you (well just now)cause i don’t know you and don’t want to harm your income (by the way where did you get your textures?) but you are talking alot of shit about people you don’t even know or know their talent and there is alot of talent at that place and all around SL so stop being an asshole and get that stick out of your ass.
xoxo bitches are for free
OWWW and one last thing Tyr, did you know alot of people who work for that place love you store (which again i don’t know why) but they do, great way to lose clients
If my clients are part of content theft? then please dont shop at my store. Win win for both of us. You save money and I dont cater to thieves <3
p.p.s. In addition to my own above comment, atleast my own (crap or not) is my own work with legally attained resources. Please go scan more sports illustrated cover models and morph some frumpy faces on it and call it a profile picture.
Your clients? should be going to people who would screw the pooch for cash and will give them something legal, and good, for what they pay for!
All I really have to say is the obvious -
It’s a horrible morph. First year graphic design students could do better. And if you’re paying $1,000L or even $500L for a picture like this, then you’re an idiot, if for no other reason than it looks horrible, tacky, and shoddily done. Period.
Kthxbai.
Morphs are ridiculous period.
Mariposa charges up the butt for them because there are idiots out there who will buy them.
Then she pays her photographers PEANUTS.
Guess what. Mariposa gets the last laugh I guess. Cause there’s idiots who buy them. And then people who actually do the work and get paid crap for the work they do.
Also good to see well known named designers and business people making fools of themselves on here.
Great marketing. Round of applause
Mariposa payes all costs of doing business – the photographers pay nothing but time and upload fees. Its a fair trade and terms of employment – so photographers actually take home more than the Studio. And the studio pays the tiers, sales reps, and all advertising fees. Definitely a fair trade.
JC that’s B.S.
I pay for my land tier. I don’t need advertising because my work and reputation gets me enough clients.
She requires her photogs to do at least 3 clients a week. Not 3 images. 3 clients. And you know what they get for it? Half of the price.
You really think she isn’t making money off of this? Give me a break. She said it herself, she’s a business woman.
So with paying my own land tier, without advertising (even if I wanted to), and doing less work. I still make more money than her photographers.
Fair trade my ass. You work for 5 hours on a picture, then have her criticize your work (when she’s not even an artist), and then get paid 250L.
And people wonder why most of the photographers there are shit? They get paid shit. When you’re forced to shit out work fast so she can make money rather than make quality. That’s what you get.
There are maybe three or four photogs from there that are actually worth mentioning. Period.
What a joke.
having netted well over 200000L as a photographer at ATOG over the past year – and I am not working atm… I would say its a fair trade.
if that is not enough L for ya – the I wish you much luck in acheiving the traffic and the sales that ATOG does. Mariposa deserves her cut and anyone fussing over the amountshe makes is just jelous of her success – because they have not figured out how or why she is successful and cannot acheive the same level of success themselves.
incidentally, have you ever worked in the real world where your the artist working for a non artist? It happens more often than not. So big freakin deal- if an employer wants to do quality control, its their right. If you don’t like it don’t work for the person.
Honestly, this is the first place I have everheard of and critical comments on ATOG artists as a whole. Again, I am of the opinion this is all just jelousy.
Bottom line remains: permission to use and modify the original photo as a means for making money weren’t given.
The fact that the morph is beyond ugly…is just an amusing side note LOL
Oh yeah: Anonymous Photographer…10x better than original?
*falls over laughing*
Tyr, our comment wasn’t about what’s right and fair wasn’t about the stealing and all that, it was about you talking all bunch of shit on people you don’t know. Yes i agree morphs are not the greatest thing there was, and agree alot of stuff on SL all around SL (cause all of you are pointing fingers at just one place) are ending up in stealing from one person or another (and I sure your cloth textures are not better). But to get so down and dirty on people you don’t know just cause you know one is fucking childish, I’m sure you haven’t seen most of the work people there do and you just like talking crap at people. And Tyr I know you are a big part of alot of SL best magazines mmm did you ever come to them and ask about their photogs and if they are not braking any rules? of course you didn’t you just like jumping in at SCD and wont ever try to cause any harm to your work on SL cause god forbid if you go against the people you work with dayly.
here is a tip then : Dont work for a studio who is obviously stealing.
Then the comment, wont apply to you. Obviously working there you condone it \o/
Tyr you are such a young child, or just act like one! You said a comment about the people who work there and their talent not about the work place, talent is not where you work is about the person itself. Go graw up a bit become a mature person and reaspond the same to comments made by you insted of \o/ like a silly little child. You show who you really are on this page to everyone and your are doing a really bad bad bad marketing for yourself. You are such a small minded person and I really don’t know any more why I take time to respond to your stupid comments!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30799952@N02/4210407396/
xx -tyr
This will be my last post on the comment! Happy holidays all <3
I’m adding a spellchecker and dictionary to my free Christmas giveaway package. This should make for a happier New Year for all.
there are photo sources these ppl CAN use from deviant art but, i have to admit most of the time, they do not read the owners description of what can and can not be used.
They have to read it before using it.
I do but, then I also have an account on DA.
And have been a member for over 2 yrs, or so, so I do understand the agreements better then, say, a new person, to sl.
just look in photo stock.. not in their personal works.
Oh funny also to see so many photographers defending this. All either a part of ATOG or photographers who use morphing as part of their own sales as well.
Funny because you’re all finding the smallest way to justify using these images without crediting or buying it when you need to.
Sounds like Nike who can find any excuse to justify sweatshops.
It’s a principal thing in case you guys didn’t get it the first time.
Oh. And it’s funny calling morphing art. It’s unoriginal and poorly done. Yeah. Art. Right.
I am not anonymous photographer. That person just doesnt want to lose a job. I am me, worked for Mariposa for nearly a year (under a different name at first) and tried to keep this from happening.
I brought morphing to A Touch of Glamour because I was introduced to Mezzy Lusch’s work and thought if she was doing this then it was fine. I was told a celebrity’s image was public and I take fault for being that dense. But when I found out they were using Deviant Art images, and that celeb spreads were considered content theft I not only warned them to stop but linked them to specific places where they could see the “witch hunt” So to all of you at ATOG who think I betrayed you under that Anonymous Photographer person can all go take a long walk on a short bridge. Mariposa, I told you what to do and you ignored me. Because of your arrogance and your stubbornness you have now suffered for it. Next time you run a business, do your homework before you ruin potential artists. Do yourself a favor and go back to stripper pimping and stop sending your troll sheep to harass everyone. Oh and by the way Beyonce, morphing takes a total of 15 minutes and is the easiest thing there is to do. The charge for it should be like 50L. Seriously.
This is Hotdogs Miami, formerly known as Lavendar Paine, publicly bashing you because you already accused me of it. I tried to save reputations and got shot in the back.
Funny you should say that about morphing being so easy and overpriced. I remember you asking me why I didn’t do them at one point and saying “you should you can make $$$$$”.
Yeps, I sure did. I believe this was during the time when I started this and when I was stealing too without being aware of it? Yes, but you see these people already know that since I said it. I am not sure who you are, but it’s not a crime to charge loads of money to do things that come easily. I really thought it came easily to all people to be honest because there is no imagination or really effort there. But it is supply and demand and people wanted it. I made money, go me yay. You can’t slam me upside the head for not being aware but you could if I continued it..which I did not.
Alright guys, enough…..DAYS ago, I posted that I was looking into the legality of what we are doing with morphing at ATOG and if I were able to substantiate these claims, i’d remove the service. That is taking accountability for my actions and the actions of my photographers.
Everyone makes mistakes….every single on of you who are going back and forth here sitrring up bucketloads of drama. But I’m gonna save everyone some time here. I take responsiblity for what happens in my gallery. I am not an artist, i dont make images, I only provide an outlet for my artists to have a nearly limitless client flow to do what they love best.
I’m sure you can all understand that I need to look into this from all sides and see if it truly is breaking laws….it will take only a few days for me to do so, and once I do, if i’m able to establish morphing is indeed ip theft and there isnt any way for us to do it legally, the service will be removed from my gallery. I dont want my name or anyone else working for me to suffer due to our ignorance.
Until then….PLEASE….stop hurting each other. Really, its all too much. You people are friends, you’ve spent time together, you’ve bonded…dont let this nonsense drama take away from that.
I take the blame where its due and Lav is right, I should have done my homework. I dont agree that this is the fair price to pay for ignorance, but its something I can get through and ATOG will prevail and will do so within the law. Friendships, however, shouldnt be wagered over something like this so please please please, respect each other and stop this nonsense.
Mariposa Menges
Oh, lovely. DARLING. NOW you start to act diplomatic. AFTER you’ve already talked rudely to several people (Darkley and Tyr included).
Marioposa. You’re full of it. You’ve already tainted your reputation. And it’s about high time people finally see what you’re really like.
How can you say you provide an outlet for your artists. You force work upon them that doesn’t allow them to GROW as artists. Then you come up with bullshit answers. And now that you’re in the fire, what you so PROUDLY claimed was okay, NOW you say you’re looking into it?. If your reputation was not in trouble (which hate to break it to you, it already is), you’d still have our nose in the air tromping around and spreading your arrogance in people’s IMs.
Get over yourself.
How’s that saying go? Oh yeah….You can’t put lipstick on a pig.
Actually “crazy” My very first response to this article was, and i quote “We origianlly started ATOG as normal SL images and morphs came along later and blossomed out of client demand. I’ll be doing more research into this and if I am able to locate a clear precendent as to this being IP theft, we’ll remove our morphing service.”
So you’re wrong, I’ve taken accountability from the start. As for me talking rudely to several people well, that is no more excusable than anyone else’s rude comments on here including yours is it?
This entire thing has been handled badly. If concern for maintaining IP rights was truly the mission here, I can think of several better ways to have gone about it. You and other bloggers on here have taken it as far away from that mission as possible and turned it into a personal vendetta.
I’ve clearly voiced my fault in all of this. I should have researched ip rights when morphing was introduced into atog by lavendar paine and when she sent a notice to my staff group telling them to stick to celebrity images for their morphs, I should have looked deeper into that too. So yes, the fault here is clearly mine and I accept it fully.
To all of you who actually CARE about what this was originally supposed to address and getting it corrected, you’ll be happy to know, ATOG has enacted rules for our morph artists which include using only stock images from sites that permit the use of their images, siting the site on the description field of the image and using as little of the image as necessary. These will be the new rules until I can complete my research as to what else would be necessary to ensure ip rights remain intact. Any further constructive advice on this matter would certainly be appreciated and as for the drama and childish comments, its not helpful and at this point is extremely tiring and just plain silly.
Again Mariposa.
You’re full of shit.
The way you talked to Darkley was rude.
The way you approached Tyr was rude.
Not to mention the way you’ve talked to other business people and have sent your cronies after them. Yeah I know how you handle things in the past. “Darling.”
You still have a poor way of picking up your tracks.
It’s kind of like saying, “Oh yeah I bought that movie for $5 through a friend, I had NO idea it was stolen!”
That you’ve been investigating this from teh beginning? Please.
And just because someone attacked you, doesn’t make it right for you to attack them back.
real business people don’t act that way. Or actually, I should say, SMART business people.
And maybe you’re right. It is personal. Because you’re now starting to listen to people, when it’s already too late. Your head is too big. News flash, you’ve made more enemies then friends. You just have no idea how many and who they are. If you had any idea how much shit is talked behind your back, you might rethink about how you handle your business and “competition.”
I’d wish you good luck. But that’d be a lie.
So I just hope you really are trying to be more diplomatic and not just saving face here.
Ok so I guess I should thank Darkley really, because as much as I disagree with her making a post which, in my opinion, was simply to create a bit of excitement it did make me examine the kind of organization I was working with and after some thinking I decided that while I wasn’t selling anyone ELSE out I did feel like I was selling myself out. Plus I decided I didn’t want to feel like I had to hide my opinions on this matter out of fear of losing my ‘job’. Also, out of interest, you may like to see the following conversation I had with the manager of ATOG a week or so ago, perhaps it will clear up the false belief that some people have that ALL ATOG photographers are theives.
[2009/12/17 13:27] Amira Footman‧: ok, I just got asked to do a morph, and the client said she had the images she wanted morphed and she gave me the link to a couple of pics on deviant art and I was wondering if we had a company policy regarding stealing art for morphs? Because I am not prepared to break the law and I don’t think we should be promoting such practices to our clients. It’s not fair on the reps and it’s not fair on us photographers either to be put in the position where we’re having to turn work down because we won’t commit a crime, no matter how insignificant that crime may be to some people.
[2009/12/17 13:27] Melenda: it is up to you to use them .. if the deviant artist doesnt allow their work to be used then dont use it
[2009/12/17 13:27] Melenda: some might
[2009/12/17 13:27] Melenda: but it is a personal decision
[2009/12/17 13:28] Melenda: explain to the client that is art from someone that doesnt allow you to use it for such a nature
[2009/12/17 13:30] Amira Footman‧: but don’t you think it should be a company decision? To say that the company does not promote breaking the law? If we were working for ourselves then yes, I would agree it was a personal decision, but as a company I can’t help but think it should be something that is a policy, as probably the busiest studio in SL isn’t it our responsibility to set the standard?
[2009/12/17 13:38] Melenda: that is something that you would have to talk to mari about not somethign I can make a call on
Lastly, to the people who have tarred every ATOG photographer as being talentless (Tyr! You’re a good person and you know how long I’ve championed your talent and efforts, from giving you free advertising while I was working for a magazine, to inviting you to take part in widely publicized a fashion show for free, to blogging about your store, to picturing your stuff on my Flickr. I’m shocked that you are so willing to throw everyone, even people you don’t know, into the same basket.) at least hold your condemnation until you’ve made sure you’ve at least made the effort to look at every ATOG photographer’s work, and if that’s too much effort, well then hold your judgements. I’m not proud to have worked for ATOG, but I AM proud of the work I did while I was with them.
Amira Footman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/amirafootman/
I didn’t write it to ‘create excitement’ no, anyone who knows me, knows that I have long hated these morphs, found them lazy and ugly. I wanted to write about it so people realise what they are, overpriced for little work and contributing to IP theft, as you can see from the 2 conversations I had people seem to be completely unaware that you can just take a google image and use it as your own.
[14:10] Amira Footman: Anyone who accuses you of this all being your fault is talking bullshit as far as I am concerned, people are responsible for their own actions, and you can’t be expected to know everything, but it is the case, however difficult it may be, that content and copyright issues are a huge thing right now, and SCD especially are jumping on any opportunity to cause drama from it. But, on the upside, it’s SCD, very few take it seriously and to be perfectly honest I’d go so far as to saying that I highly highly doubt even 1% of AToG clients even read SCD!
Ok so the above wasn’t posted by me, I suspect it was posted by Mariposa, which is fine, I stand by what I said to her, this isn’t all her fault, she isn’t responsible for anyone’s actions but her own, and it’s a shame she is now feeling so angry and upset she’s hitting out at anyone she can and I’m sure my resignation has left her feeling even more upset and betrayed, all very understandable, no hard feelings Mari, we’re all adults, eh? The majority of SCD clients are, well, not the kind of SL users who would be aware of SCD, that’s all I’m saying on THAT, but if anyone really does want a further explanation, pop into the AToG gallery sometime and people watch, you’ll get the idea. I had no wish to pass on less than amicable terms with Mari or AToG, so take care, Mari, …darling.
SCD clients = SCD readers, got clients on the bloody brain.
Another example of SL “creators” denying reality in order to make money off of someone else’s work and getting away with it because there’s no way to directly slam them for it other than to get people talking.
That people really seem to think that if you can download an image from the internet you can do anything with it, including make money off of it, really fucking floors me.
Actually, I didnt Amira but the fact that it ended up here does nothing but show that this is just a never-ending breeding ground for drama so i’m done. I’ve asked all my atog staff to avoid giving in to this drama any further and I will do the same. Eventually you will all find another person to harass and belittle to pass your time.
For everyone else, thanks for helping me through this very hard lesson. I will be doing my best to make sure mistakes like this dont exist in my future or the future of atog. This will be my last post and even my last visit to this site so do try and respect each other and remember that while its quite easy to point out the faults of others, none of us are perfect so would you like your mistakes to be brought to your attention in a constructive helpful manner or trashed all over some website for all to feast on….think about that
Best Wishes to all in your new year
Mariposa Menges
LOL ooo Mari, perhaps people would be more inclined to believe you if you hadn’t posted that comment ^^ using the same name as you used to post the IM.
ha Point made!
You can’t put lipstick on a pig.
Trying to save face when it’s too late. Just go put your tail between your legs Mari and walk off.
The only thing I wish is that you learned your lesson and that you learn to treat people better, otherwise karma is gonna continue kicking you in the ass.
I think these pictures are terribly creepy. That being said, I wonder if these individuals that are in essence stealing these real life photographs would have issue with someone in world taking their morphed images and selling them for profit? Hmmm.
This all went on way too long. If it were me, I would have just contacted some of the original photographers with the information and left it up to them to deal with it as they see fit.
I have tried that in the past with no success at all, sending people private flickr mails that either go unanswered or resulting in being blocked. I spoke to the owner of the biggest photography studio in SL who sets the tone for all her staff.
Why not just make the SL morph a parody your not using the real persons face your making a parody of something and everyone knows its not real
problem solved.I also bet if you showed a 100 people the picture they wouldn’t have a clue where the picture came from or who it was.
These pictures are so creepy. I hope people stop making them not just because of the permissions but that they’re hideous.
Im just getting started in the game of SL and yes i am a photographer and yes i have a flick site and a web site and yes i Morph Pictures.
You can use any picture you like under the fair use act for morphing as long as you do not do it for finacial gain.
Ive done 100′s of Morph pic’s even had some on display even had them printed in media all for free on the provision that my real shots are used
No you do not have to give credit to the owner of the original pic due to the fair use even though it is a nice thing to do
Oh by the way the brother in law is an IP lawyer makes a lot more than i do wonder if i should tell him about SL
have a nice day
Tell your brother, go for it. Link to your flickr?
When i get around to doing some SLtography i will send you a personal invite,at the moment all my work on flickr is real life work and as they say RL and SL do not mix and in my case RL flickr and SL flickr will be two accounts keep an eye out for an invite.
Just as an after thought who would you like to be morphed with?
For all you people up in arms over morphing pic’s take a gander at this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8463657.stm
I worked for ATOG *chuckles* Most of the Flickr page for this business contains pictures that have quite clearly used images that are not lawfully the ‘artist’s’ to use. Mariposa is allowing this to go on. And I don’t agree with it. But as many have stated, until the original creators file against Mariposa (and yes, you can be filed against) then there really isn’t anything anyone can do about it *shrugs* … Look around your sl homes.. I can guarentee you that most of the textures are taken off of google images.. Wether stolen or royalty free stock.. Everyone on this whole copying, theft, ripping band wagon is just getting their knickers in a twist. If it is out of your control, then just leave it be. Don’t cause yourselves the stress. Nothing is original anymore. Not in Second Life, not in real life. Fashion and music will continue to come around time and time again.
And for the record.. the morphs are fug :]