“Models are nothing but glorified hangers.”
Posted on 23. May, 2009 by Tenshi Vielle in Gossip, RL in SL, SL in RL
Antonia Marat as a Gracie Girl
“Meh? I will say this tho, if I were to hold a similar contest for Artilleri, I would probably ask for curvy models because that is what I feel fits the brand. She is doing the same. Just with different preferences.” – Antonia Marat
Models + glorified + hangers @ Google.
This showed up yesterday on the feeds and discussion forums, much to the chagrin of many in the Second Life community:
4. You must be willing and able to mod your body shape (not face) to within the params outlined below. The note here is a guideline of ranges into which you should fall to give the right feel to my clothing in the photos. The clothing is designed to fit any av size, however to look the most true to my original design i prefer this range of sizes.
SIZE PREFERENCES FOR GRACIE MODEL:
Go into edit appearance and click body
follow the measures down.. I will highlight and give a range for the important ones:Height: At least 75 but preferrable is 80-85 or so.
Body thickness: less than 7
Body fat 0 preferred but no more than 7
Torso Muscles should be less than 40
Shoulders should be proportionate but usually less than 50.
Breast size: LESS THAN 40 PLEASE (mine are around 33)
Arms length… you are taller so your arms should be longer… probably between 60 and 69 and finger tips reach just around or above your mid thigh. Mine are at 67
torso length… we dont need long torsos so less than 55 but not too short so shorter than 44
Love handles…. between 15 and 20
not too muscular please … less than 47 but we need some tone so more than 40
leg length.. LONG!! somewhere between 80 and 95 is usually good… mine are 89.
HIP WIDTH: NO more than 48!!!!!!!!!!! ( remember i use a lot of system skirts)
Hip length shouldnt be very long.. keep it less than 37 please.
Butt size less than 30 (ALOT OF SYSTEM SKIRTS SO SMALL IS GOOD)
Saddle bags less than 25
foot size 0 so that all shoes will work.Pay is $L125 / hour
Tenshi’s hips in world are damn near a 67 on the slider. I think her legs are near 60-70. Not 80 and 95. Apparently, Gracie Girls are to be tall sticks with heads plopped on.
Now, I get it – there are people that look somewhat similar to this IRL, but those people are not pushing us to look like them to win some stupid modeling contract. A digital one at that.
Do you guys remember Guy Seiling and all that body image debate last year – how s/he was pushing girls to be pro-ana, was posting pro-ana pictures on their Flickr, etc etc? Yeah. This is kind of like that. I had a friend who made her avatar super-thin in SL and had to beef herself up because she really was developing a RL case of anorexia. Making her avatar larger assisted her in being able to stop her body dysmorphia.
I think one of the major reasons why this is such a touchy subject is because, well, not all of us are built that way. In fact, about 80% of women (90% statistics are made up on the fly!) are actually rounded, not tall and skinny like what Gracie calls for.
My problem with this? That anyone would mod their shape to be a Gracie Girl.
I think all of us with thick shapes should wear Gracie’s items for one day – just to show her, the rest of us fat folk look just fine in her creations as well.
Creamy
May 23rd, 2009
This shape is definitely not to my taste – but each to their own I say and no one is forcing anyone to be a Gracie model.
If Gracie prefers her clothes to be shown on a shape like that and If someone *wants* to look like a tall, skinny rake in SL then fair enough, it’s all about being what you can’t be in RL.
On a lighter note, I’m loving Antonia’s leg tattoo
Francois Ghost
May 23rd, 2009
I love food.
Beulah
May 23rd, 2009
the shape is very poor looking and one I would never use
not all store models are a waste of space – I know my girls at Ivalde work hard to give customer service and help alot
we have never ever asked anyone to change a shape to suit out needs and when finding models there shape never came into it when giving out the job
Chav Paderborn
May 23rd, 2009
When will people realise that turning down body fat and thickness too low make the avatar look blocky and weird?
Dakota Buck
May 23rd, 2009
“Now, I get it – there are people that look somewhat similar to this IRL,”
Somewhat similar is a bit of a stretch. I once made a shape carefully measured up to some pictures of RL models after reading that a SL publication hired models with shapes of “RL modeling standards” and wanted to see how close their shapes actually were to this. When people go for the tall skinny look in SL they almost always seem to well overshoot the mark – I think that’s what bothers me more about this sort of stuff. Not the promotion of tall and thin – be whatever you want – but when people pretend that it mirrors anything possible in RL. I kind of wish everyone would just stop kidding themselves.
I’m 6′2″ in RL and I’d be too short to be a “Gracie Girl”.
Miss Jay
May 23rd, 2009
I’m sure not many avatars will have a problem with modifying their body to be a model for Gracies. Hell, I’m even sure that they can change shapes in between everyday Second Life and SL modeling for Gracies .
These model wannabe’s should actually be open to being more chameleon like; being that they can change shapes, skins (light and darker tones), eyes, hair etc…
Antonia Marat
May 23rd, 2009
Oh! That’s me up there. I’d just like to add that when I Plurked that picture, I wrote (quote) “Meh? I will say this tho, if I were to hold a similar contest for Artilleri, I would probably ask for curvy models because that is what I feel fits the brand. She is doing the same. Just with different preferences.”
Dancien
May 23rd, 2009
To be honest, I do not like that shape at all. It makes the clothing look bad to be honest. Avatars of a non-stick figure shape are going to look at that and go “Yeah, not even gonna bother it’ll take too much adjusting”.
That being said, it’s her store and her clothing. If she wants her clothing to be shown by Somalia’s Next Top Model that’s her choice.
Beo
May 23rd, 2009
I personally think this is mental sickness, i was once shopping Lelutka and i probl never seen a place packed with so much skiny (ugly) female avatars again.
Plus the fact that i also saw Thora Charron (co owner of Lelutka) over there which was so incredible to me.
Because seriously, the very first moment as i saw her i had to think of some Jew right before he/she died in some German Camps back in 1943. (No offense, maybe because i just saw a movie regarding that a couple hours ago before i went to lelutka)
But however, i personally think this is mental sickness, has nothing to do with being pretty anymore.
Womans do need curves.
Boogers
May 23rd, 2009
Her idea of what a model should look like is ugly and unproportional.
Ew.
Also, RL modeling world has changed alot.
When being interviewed by an agency, I was told to put on MORE weight, because my “body type” didn’t appear healthy to them.
So excuse me whilst I go stuff my face with powdered donuts. :]
Ryker Beck
May 23rd, 2009
What bothered me most about even doing the comparison between my shape and the Graciefied one is my immediate reaction after doing so:
“I suddenly feel short AND fat.”
I can’t imagine that’s a good body image to be giving other women, even in a virtual world. >.<
Vivianne Draper
May 23rd, 2009
I made bacon and potato pancakes in honor of the gracie avatar this morning.
Alyx Sands
May 23rd, 2009
I could….bite a Gracie model in the kneecap I guess. 5′5”?
Dusky Jewell
May 23rd, 2009
I had no idea that your avatar was that hot, Ryker. Too bad I did not cam in on your ass at that prom gig.
Anyway, I WANT that leopard print bathing suit, how did I miss that? I need to go back to artilleri or is that Jetdoll?
My ass, thighs, and breasteses will never walk down a runway, for which I am proud. I am so not a fash model, I am a pinup. I think the ano look is absolute bullshit, and ugly.
SomeRandomChick
May 23rd, 2009
I saw that announcement on the feeds and laughed. It looks like a generically bad shape.
Protip : Women have hips.
Terry Toland
May 23rd, 2009
“These model wannabe’s should actually be open to being more chameleon like; being that they can change shapes, skins (light and darker tones), eyes, hair etc…”
This really isn’t about being able to change shape- clearly, they were able to change their shapes to compare. It’s about whether the presented shape is socially acceptable to ask of SL models. Yes, there are times that I have worn shapes that are thinner than I would prefer for shows, but they were proportionate. The shape is very stretched out, more like those unrealistic designer drawings than even some of the models on the runway today. I have worn a shape specifically tailored to the dimensions of a real life model known as December of Nocturnal Models Agency, and she is much shorter and fuller than this.
Beyond the realism issue is the psychological problem of asking people to be so thin and unreal in the name of beauty and fashion. As already mentioned, people can be affected by what they see in SL; in fact, SL is sold to businesses and educational institutes because it is so real and immerses the user. A deeper connection with the material is created with the customizable, 3D avatar and environment than with basic forum chat or similar methods of communication. While some people may be able to detach themselves, others may be consciously or subconsciously affected by what they witness or – better put – experience. And as this is not just a one-player game, it’s simple-minded to only think about those that can detach themselves. The “if you don’t like it, don’t buy/look at it” doesn’t really work, either, as it’s not just a simple insult or badly designed piece of clothing. It hits at body image, a major concern for women today. Consider if a KKK group decided to have a headquarters on a mainstreet of a multi-racial community and prominently display aggressive, pro-white messages. It’s not directly attacking non-whites, but is still consider socially unacceptable and an insult to other ethnicities. I doubt people would accept the solution of “just don’t look at it”. Now, Gracie’s shop isn’t a fanatical group, but the advertisement has the same affect: the best/most desirable women are exceedingly tall and thin, with the underlying message that women who are not of those dimensions are ugly and unwanted.
Cajsa Lilliehook
May 23rd, 2009
I ‘gracified’ my shape and societal conditioning is such that next to the gracified shape, my own shape looked short and chubby even though I know it’s a nice, healthy fit shape. The ad is not the problem, how the ad reinforces already present conditioning is the problem.
However, I find it encouraging and hopeful that hardly anyone looks like that in their avatars. The bloggers and designers and fashionistas whom I know all look vastly different – which indicates that the majority of women in the SL fashion world have a more realistic and healthy sense of what is a beautiful body shape.
Fidella Faulds
May 23rd, 2009
I really don’t have an issue with this. I’m assuming the Gracie is a stylized mannequin that reflects the designer’s vision of the brand. Kind of like Lladro figurines. I see a lot of exaggerated avatars on fashion blogs and flickr, and just consider it artistic license, not a promotion of a way of life. Sometimes it works artistically, sometimes it doesn’t.
Gidge
May 23rd, 2009
I saw Cajsa’s gracified shape and cracked up, she looked hilarious. I guess my only real thought was that if this was your requested shape to wear only during modeling gigs then, well whatever. It’s your gig you can request people mod to whatever you need them to, I suppose.
But I think Ryker and Antonia (and Cajsa for that matter) all look gorgeous in their regular healthy, fit shapes.
Allegory Malaprop
May 23rd, 2009
The “I feel short and fat” after trying out one of these shapes is the worrying part.
It’s her brand, she’s going to be paying these people, she’s allowed to expect certain things of her employees. How often have you seen a furry store model? (Lag issues aside…that generally has nothing to do with it.) Even the ones with elven ears are few and far between, and “modelling agencies” will ask you to tweak your shape, change your ears/hair/etc. to fit what they desire- sometimes just for a particular job, sometimes as a matter of course (for instance, I know someone who had to put away her elf ears and change her haircolour for an agency. It’s not the end of the world, when she’s not working for them…she can go back to the look that she prefers). It’s the tradeoff for what you’re getting out of it, and you can always walk away. That’s the beauty of SL- an ear trim, a tummy tuck, a boob lift, a nose job, it’s all a couple of seconds’ work, and you can go right back to what _you_ want to look like when that’s over.
However, we get attached to our avatars, and they are wrapped into our sense of self- even though Allegory isn’t a true representation of myself (I could never pull off a mohawk! And the very first day she rezzed I decided what I wanted to her to look like, which was the persona that fit the name, not me. She’s not an amazon by any stretch, but she’s still a few inches taller than I am, too. Interesting aside- the height detectors we use are actually off a bit too, so you aren’t actually the height you think you are, although it’s still close), it is always a little strange wearing a different shape, skin, hair, etc. Even when I wear a friend’s shape, that I think makes _them_ beautiful, it feels _wrong_ to me. Which is really weird, because I see everyone on the same screen!
Additionally, a lot of people have created avatars that are helping them get over body issues, which is a very interesting social/psychological aspect to SL. But people still attack others on their shapes- especially those with more realistic avatars. I’d rather have diversity than a bunch of stick thin amazons. I’d also rather have some sort of RL height equivalent built into the shape sliders, a “x meters, y feet z inches” at the side at all times when tweaking a shape, since I don’t think most people who are super tall actually think of anything in those terms. (Although, truly, sizes _are_ arbitrary anyway- and buildings need to be built oversized simply because of the way the system works.)
To me, the Gracie’s avatars are not to my taste- they are far too angular and out of proportion (the legs are _far_ too long, aside from everything else), and I don’t see them as appearing like RL models, but instead as cartoons- they are drawings, for lack of a better word, by someone who doesn’t study realism- in fact they look a bit like the fashion drawings, as opposed to the people who actually wear the fashions- have you seen the things they teach kids at fashion design school? I’ve always found it odd that they would design clothing on things that were often so dramatically beyond even the reality the tallest and thinnest model could achieve. But regardless, SL has absolutely no obligation to be real. Most people choose to try to look real, but that’s _their_ choice.
Stephanie Misfit
May 23rd, 2009
This isn’t like the whole Guy Seiling “Thinspo” thing at all. That group promoted anorexia as a RL physical ideal. They added pro-ana text to their ultra skinny pics and described the group as “pro-ana, pro-bulemia”. Gracie has not done anything remotely like this.
She wants to present her clothing in a certain way. It’s not to my taste, but I can see why she might believe that the silhouette of her outfits would be accentuated by a tall, thin shape. There are a large number of other designers using the same kinds of shapes in their ads, and tons of fashion bloggers with that whole cartoonish stick legs, big head look going on. I don’t see them being singled out here.
The specifications Gracie posted are what she would like the people she is paying to use while they are modelling for her ads. She isn’t suggesting that they need to look like this all the time.
Yenn
May 23rd, 2009
I remember some contests where the designer specified what kind of body type they are looking for..for example one of the first kadewe shows that asked for models with small lips, ass and breasts (or something like that). I see nothing wrong with that. If you don’t like to change your shape or don’t want to look like the model the designer is looking for then just don’t enter the contest…no one will force you to enter…
I just don’t get why the shape has to have small hips and butt just because she uses system skirts a lot…isn’t it enough to have a system skirt shape that is modified to look good in system skirts?
Dream Resistance
May 23rd, 2009
Do you /think/ they could have managed to make a shape requirement that was at least smoothly shaped and curved? My avitar is fairly thin and tall. But she’s proportional. On women, the hips are supposed to be nearly 3 TIMES the width of the head. Shoulders, only two. There should be a smooth curve between armpit and hips, not some bizarre notch because someone decided that fat slider 0% was a good idea. Sadly though, I see shapes like this ALL THE TIME. Men and women alike only look at the slider numbers, not the actual result on the avi. This appears to be another case. Its really just, ugly.
Chav Paderborn
May 24th, 2009
It’s a bit like when Alphamale wanted sexist male models and their example was a Triangle-Man with T Rex arms. “Alphamale: for the man you don’t want to have sex with”? Maybe this is the female version.
GattinaDumpling
May 24th, 2009
I’m very attached to my leg brace. I won’t remove it for a modeling job no matter who asks me. I have had it cropped out of pics before by certain designers, but the majority of designers want ME, my av, because of how I look and they don’t care what my hip sliders are at.
When someone says ” I think the ano look is absolute bullshit, and ugly.” — it’s just as nasty as someone saying “Curvy chicks look fat and like slobs”.. can’t we all just accept each other no matter what shape we have? Don’t we get enough bullshit RL about how we are too much this or not enough that or whatever?
As far as Gracie’s requirements. I suppose it is just what she feels looks best. Idk, I am so over sl fashion in many ways, it’s all so safe and typical and not fun and exciting. Why doesn’t anyone call for dwarf models? Or like robot women? Sometimes it feels like so many designers have NO clue about fashion or trying anything new and interesting and current.. it’s always the same-o same-o.I feel like hitting them all over the head with a copy of Japanese Vogue. There are, of course, exceptions to this and there are many kickass designers in SL, but this Gracie thing doesn’t shock me, it’s just the same old ho-hum whatever.
I have been having fun lately wearing chav clothes and a full body crips tattoo and a ton of jewelry and monster hair and orange skin. I am gonna ask Gracie if I can model for her!
Everyone is fine with me. You all look lovely today. The extreme sliders, the anorexics, the fat girls, the blingtards, the furries, the vampires, the shemales, the non Japanese girls who keep trying to look Japanese, the nekos and the lovely women of Gang Bangers Big Booty Interracial Gang Bang Sex Club .
We are all beautiful. <3
A Nony Mouse
May 24th, 2009
I’m not sure if anyone noticed this before she took the page down, but one of Grace’s requirements was that the model in question had to be available during certain times in SL and had to be available at the drop of a hat because Grace’s time in SL is limited, blah blah blah. Also, if you look at Grace’s site, you can see she creates and sells shapes. So if this is the case, why didn’t she just call a “model search” for people who could be available during the time frame she specified, and dropped a shape on them for the acutal jobs? That seems to be much easier than expecting someone to mod their shape to some wildly specific measurments.
GattinaDumpling
May 24th, 2009
Oh andddd.. I do not know this Gracie chick, but I am sure she feels like crap now because everyone is making her sound like an idiot. Which is kinda uncool. I feel bad for her
Trickett
May 24th, 2009
Awesome comments from Chav, Dakota, Terry and even Gattina, who I have to disagree on in some points. x:
I think image is massively distorted in SL, I’m guessing the meshes are partially to blame.
I really wish I could find a way to write this eloquently like I have done in my head every time I see these walking sticks. I’m very attached to my avie and I relate to her and I think that’s probably common place amongst many avies. When I see other avies I often see it as a representation of what they’d like to look like and what they believe is beautiful. And I have to say being so obviously underweight and disproportionate you’d probably collapse if you stood up it’s not something I want to see promoted.
I hope this makes sense, I really think it’s a serious issue and I know there’s going to be a lot of ‘SL sticks don’t make real life eating disorders’ and ‘all these women are just middle-aged women reliving their twenties and trying to be glam’ comments but I think with more young people entering the grid who seem to be seriously concerned with body image and weight it will be a major problem for some people and I think it would be decent of the SL fashion community to take responsibility and promote a healthier body image.
I’ll be about the only one to say this but I’m all right if Gracie feels bad. Every time I see a shape like what she specifies I feel terrible.
AlaskaMetro
May 24th, 2009
The proportions on the “Gracie” shape don’t appeal to me, nor do they seem particularly realistic.* However, it’s just a shape! Changing it for specifications for a virtual fashion brand isn’t a big deal.
I realize where people are coming from with the body issue thing, but really, it’s just a virtual world/game/thing. What’s next? Hating all Japanese cartoons because the female characters are thin and young?
I do have to give Gracie props for even hiring virtual models in the first place. More designers should if they can; it gives employment to female avatars that isn’t in adult entertainment, and keeps the economy going.
My beef with the shape below, though, LOL:
* The legs are too skinny and lack tone. RL fashion models still have nice legs, that particular shape has no calf or thigh definition. They’re also too long. Sans-shoes, the crotch should be halfway down the body. If you make the arms that skinny + lack of torso muscles, the mesh starts to show a gap between the armpit that looks lousy. It is still possible to make a proportionate shape in SL that is overly tall and slender, but it’s a LOT harder, because the entire mesh is stretched upwards like taffy. When I had an agency I think I had a height cap of 6′3″ for the models (though they all ignored it, sigh.)
AlaskaMetro
May 24th, 2009
Added to say: my alt does fashion modelling in SL and is ALWAYS the shortest model on ANY runway or in ANY contest.
She’s 6′0″ and that was her “tall” shape I made specifically for runway.
GattinaDumpling
May 24th, 2009
“I’ll be about the only one to say this but I’m all right if Gracie feels bad. Every time I see a shape like what she specifies I feel terrible.”
WHY? Whyyyyyyyyy?Whyyyyyy?
Trickett
May 24th, 2009
Personal stuff.
She doesn’t need to promote such a distorted image. It won’t do anyone harm to put some width, body fat and muscle and reduce the leg sliders. She could have said ‘I’d like tall (above seven foot), elegant, slender models’ and reviewed what came through but it’s so funneled into being rediculously lanky.
It’s fairly difficult to do the thin-tall thing now and convince people it’s artsy, especially if they’re ‘models’, you’re always going to bring up connotations of self-image and eating disorders.
Mourna Biziou
May 25th, 2009
Antonia is hot.
That is all.
GattinaDumpling
May 25th, 2009
But Trickett,
What if she had said she wanted super curvy models with really large measurements? Then what about skinny girls who felt bad about that? I think that could easily bring up body issues for some people.
Everyone has issues with how they look. RL/SL. I have met very few people who don’t dislike something about how they look.
The only person who can make you feed bad about these things is yourself. For every Gracie who wants a super thin, lanky model there is another designer who wants a curvy one.
lei
May 25th, 2009
Where do I sign up to be a gracie’s girl?
CronoCloud Creeggan
May 25th, 2009
I have several CC shapes. There’s the original “supermodel CC” which was a tweaked freebie shape. Tall and slender. 6′ 2″ I think. I’d use that shape now only for runway.
There’s “catalog model CC” who is about 5′ 6″ and still slender but in a more of a “I do my yoga and pilates every day so I can still fit into a size 6 but I’m not going to give up muffins.” I made her when I had been hanging with Boss Sabrina and (later on) Tanya Book.That CC looks good in everything and probably is my favorite CC, even if I’ve pretty much switched to:
Plus size CC, which has a belly like RL CC, though RL CC is probably a touch smaller on average, but it’s close, very close. I made her because being around Rosie Barthelmess made me realize that perhaps I should have some shape honesty too and that didn’t mean I still couldn’t be pretty. There’s fit issues with prim stuff, of course, but she still looks pretty good in most things. I’m still tweaking it, I’m trying to make it realistically plus sized, but even plus size CC is probably at the smaller end of the plus size scale. in RL she might be able to plus size model, if she lost a little of that pudge, and was a few inches taller.
As for me, I’d mod my shape for a show or shoot, no problem. It’s the employer’s dime, though it would be nice to be chosen to model because I was chubby CC.
I’ll do up a gracie version of me sometime, maybe later tonight when the windows box is freed up.
Jenny Rates
May 26th, 2009
I’m not into that ‘trannie’ shape.
CronoCloud Creeggan
May 26th, 2009
Jenny Rates wrote:I’m not into that ‘trannie’ shape.
Smile when you say that, pardner.
I know trannies, I’ve seen trannies, some of my bestest online friends are trannies, and zOMG, I am a trannie! Though I usually use the term, transfolk or transpeople myself. And most “trannies” don’t look like waifish six and a half foot tall supermodels with boob jobs in need of a bag of Matt’s Chocolate Chip cookies, or Hostess Donettes.
The average middle aged MTF (male to female) transperson (whether crossdreser or transsexual) probably looks more like a taller version of my plus sized shape than that Gracie shape. Unless they’re lucky skinny bitches, then I hate them…..just kidding.
Chandni
May 27th, 2009
Personally i would prefer to see models of all sizes to see how the dresses look on different shapes, since those who will buy the dresses most likely WON’T change their shape to fit a dress from them …
Show how your dresses look in tall, small, thin, thick girls, that they can be adjusted, that they still look good when you are not a match
Kesseret
May 27th, 2009
Say all you want about “trannie” shapes. The TG people I know always have cute shapes.
Everyone knows I’m short and fat (really! 5′0 in SL and well I’d suspect a size 14/16) but it’s her business and her way of displaying her clothes. Funny there will be hundreds scrambling to do it but ask a model to go heavier (more closer to my shape) and they freak out.
Except my girls I had for my show who were very willing to stretch their shape as big as they could.
Friday
May 29th, 2009
Gracie Models is encouraging anorexia and anorexia kills people.